Grief 06: Grief in Adoption—An Interview with Jen Oshman Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Emily Jensen: Welcome back to another episode of Risen Motherhood. I'm Emily, and in just a few moments, I'll be joined by my co-host, Laura, and our special guest. If you didn't know, we're in the midst of a mini-series all about grief and motherhood. We're tackling some specific areas of grief in this series. Today, Jen Oshman is here to chat all about adoption. She shares a bit of her family's experience with international adoption, including some of the joys and sorrows throughout the process. Jen has been in women's ministry for over two decades as a missionary and pastor's wife on three continents. She's the mother of four daughters, including one through adoption, which you'll hear more about in this show. She's the author of two books: Enough About Me and Cultural Counterfeits. If you want to learn more about Jen, head to our show notes.
Just as a heads up, our kids were sick at home during this recording, so we were outside of our usual studio, and the audio isn't as good as it typically is, but we still think you'll be able to catch everything. As a reminder, our guests are discussing the sorrows of motherhood in a very raw and transparent manner. We're so grateful that you're tuning in to today's podcast, but we want to encourage you to exercise wisdom as you decide whether or not the content is the best fit for you in your current season.
We hope and pray it's an encouragement to you, but remember that everyone's lives and situations are different, so please reach out to a trusted friend, mentor, counselor, or medical professional as needed. This episode is not meant to give personal advice or be a substitute for professional help.
Okay, let's jump into today's show.
Laura Wifler: Hey, Jen, welcome to the Risen Motherhood Podcast.
Jen Oshman: Thanks, you guys. So good to be here.
Laura: Yes, we are thrilled to have you come and to talk with us and share your wisdom. For any of our listeners who might not be familiar with your work, can you just give us a brief 101? Give us the flyover about Jen.
Jen: Yes, sure. My husband and I have been married almost twenty-four years, and we finished seminary and headed to the mission field pretty much right after we got married. We served overseas for a long time. We have four daughters—three by birth, one by adoption. We've been back in the US for seven years, and it's been a joy. In that time, we've planted a church, I've written some books, done some podcasting and speaking. Yes—sums it up. It's been a pretty global life full of ministry and daughters and joy.
Emily: We love that. Then you mentioned right away that you have an adopted daughter in the mix. Can you give us an overview of her story? Tell us how adoption entered your life.
Jen: Sure. We do have a unique adoption story. Before my husband and I had kids, when we were brand-new married in our first year, our home church here in Colorado began pursuing a relationship with a home in Thailand, where our daughter was living. She lost both her mom and dad when she was the age of four. At the age of five, she went to go live in this home. Her picture was on our refrigerator, and we exchanged letters and prayed for her from the time that she was five.
Now we moved to Japan and began ministry there. Then we started taking teams from our church in Japan to Thailand, to the home where she lived. We began to know her and spend time with her once or twice or three times a year. When she was nine, my husband took a team there, and then, about a month later, I took a team there. After those two trips, we came back to one another and said, "I really sense the Lord is saying, 'I want you to be her mom and dad.'" That was much easier said than done; for, on the one hand, we realized that to pursue the adoption of a nine-year-old in Thailand by Americans, when we were living in Japan, would be very disruptive to her own life.
We were seeking wisdom and prayer, and we decided that we would give it a try and, if the Lord’s will be done, keep walking through doors as he opened them. It took three years because of all the three-country dynamics. Actually, as the Lord would have it, our daughter had to be involved in the process the whole time. We would go back and forth and be before various judges and lawyers and social workers.
Finally, the Lord did bring it to pass three years later. She was twelve when we brought her home, and our other girls were two, four, and six. She's now twenty-five, so we've been her parents for thirteen years now. She herself is a mom. She made us grandparents about three years ago. I just look at the hand of God and his mercy and redemptive work. We have a beautiful, strong relationship with her. She has endured tremendous loss in her life, but the Lord has been good to her and made her resilient and gracious. She's just a joy. We're so very proud of her, and we're grateful for what the Lord has done in our family.
Laura: That is an incredible story. Thank you for sharing it with us. It's amazing to hear how resilient you guys were as you pursued her—and your daughter as well— and just hearing about the Lord's hand in orchestrating that sovereignly. You shared that the adoption process took about three years; can you walk us through a little bit about some of the griefs that an adoptive mom might experience? I'm sure that was not easy in that process. I think, for many of us, we feel like adoption goes quickly, and it feels like a celebratory time, but we also know that there are a lot of hard things along the way. Can you just speak to some of those things?
Jen: Yes. I would love to encourage the adoptive mom who's listening who's in the process. For many of us, it takes years and years, and it's just a very trying process. You sense this call from God—you feel very strongly, "This is the right thing to do." Adoption is our Father's heart, so it should happen quickly, right? This is God's heart. It should happen quickly, but it rarely does. When people question, "Why did it take three years? That's crazy," I often remind them that there's laws on the books for good reasons. It's very good that, as Americans, we could not enter Thailand and pick out a child and take her home. It's very good that there are laws—international laws in place that protect children.
I think that it's important for adoptive parents to remember the red tape is there for good reason. Now, sometimes it's not, obviously. I won't go down that path, but adoption can be full of corruption as well—corrupt governments and corrupt agencies. For us, we had to go before American, Japanese, and Thai social workers and lawyers and judges, and it was just an extremely difficult process. And the fact that our daughter was involved—the Thai government required her consent and involvement the entire time. Every time we went to Thailand to push the process forward and then returned home to Japan, I very much had to trust that the Lord would care for our not-yet daughter—that he would meet her in her grief as she waited on us and that he would meet us in our grief as we waited on him.
I remember really poignantly one moment when we were speaking on the phone with our pastor back here in the United States, and he asked us, "Do you trust the Lord with her? She is not yet your daughter. Are you willing to entrust her to the Lord if this does not come to pass?" I feel like that was just such a shaping question for me because it caused me to ask myself, "Am I willing to entrust everything about her and our family and her future and our future to my God in heaven, or do I see myself as necessary to her story? Am I subconsciously putting myself in the seat of God where, like, 'No, I have to rescue her—I have to be her savior'?" Which I know is an ugly way to say it, but we have to come to terms with that way that we think sometimes.
That was a good question. For the mom who's waiting right now, my encouragement is: do you trust the Lord to be sovereign and good and true in your waiting child's life, even if he does not bring the adoption to come to pass? Because what's true is: our kids—all of our kids—belong to the Lord. We are not a savior for any of our kids. It's important that we trust the Lord with all of those details—all of the timing. Every piece of red tape is there with his permission and by his will that we might grow in trust and that our kids might grow in trust—even in the darkness and the pain that is waiting.
Emily: That's so encouraging to think about God with us in the waiting. Shifting gears a little bit—because I know the end of your waiting was the moment of adoption with your daughter. That can be such a beautiful and joyful, celebratory thing. I know that we've had the privilege of taking our children to two adoption hearings now in a courthouse for some good friends. It is just overwhelmingly joyful to even see the adoptive parents give testimony and the things that they say in accepting the child into their family. Both of those were followed up by a really big party afterwards, where the whole church came out. Those memories are just seared into my mind.
What's interesting is—it's also brought up, at least for our kids, a lot of questions. It's like their next question is, "Where are their biological parents and why is this adoption taking place?" Could you speak to us a little bit about the tension there of the joy of the adoption, but also the sorrow of what it means that we live in a fallen world and that families—biological families—are not always kept together and united? What is the grief and the sadness? Why is there sadness as part of this process?
Jen: I love that you're asking this question because I think it's one that is kept hush-hush in our circles. Of course, God's heart is for adoption and his heart is to set the families, and so when that happens, it is worthy of our rejoicing. The celebration is absolutely appropriate, and I love to see that. That's the highlight and the beauty that we share on social media, and that's the good news that we want to share with others. But it really is a just a small slice of the story.
For the moms who are listening, what I want to share with you might be hard to hear. I want to acknowledge that. What we see online—what we see in movies, every storyline, every movie that has an orphan in it, music, and even just in our own flesh and the way that we've been shaped by our culture—we just see the happily-ever-after. We see that this was beautiful and good and redemptive—nothing hard about it. I appreciate you asking the question because many times what we as adoptive moms hear—and what our children hear—is well-meaning people say things like, "You are so lucky." They say that to the child. "You're so lucky that you've been adopted by this family."
That is just a really damaging thing to say. First of all, don't say that. If you have said that in the past, maybe remove that from your repertoire of things that you say to adoptive families. Because the fact that adoption exists points to the reality, as you said, Emily, of brokenness in our world. In the adoption community, we talk frequently about the triad: the three—if you picture a triangle, each corner of the triangle. The first corner is the birth family—the biological mom or the first family. The second is the adoptee, and the third is the adoptive family.
We have to really be considering all three corners when it comes to adoption. I think we have, unfortunately, for the most part focused just on the adoptive family more than anything and not the adoptee as well as the first family or the biological mom. It's important that we consider what has happened in the biological mom's life that has led to her inability to parent the baby that she grew in her womb and acknowledge that grief and that loss and that sadness. Then knowing that that's a tremendous loss for the adoptee as well.
More and more is coming out about separation and grief and trauma, but studies show that even babies who are adopted directly from the delivery room endure tremendous trauma. It literally impacts their brain in ways that we're just beginning to understand. While our adoption of a twelve-year-old is maybe extreme and unique— and you don't usually hear about that—the hard reality is that an adoption of a newborn baby is also hugely impactful on that child.
There is a ton of loss, and I can get into that more as the conversation goes on, but I guess I'll just stop here with saying that, yes, it is worthy of celebrating. Every child deserves and needs a mother and a father who's unconditionally loving, but the fact that there is a child who needs that points to extreme brokenness in the birth mom's life and then a lifetime of grief for the adoptee who lost his or her first family. We've got to hold both. Both are true, and it's okay to hold both in one hand. The joy and the grief, the sorrow, the reconciliation, the brokenness, the redemption—it’s all part of the story.
Laura: I really appreciate that example of the triad that you shared and wanting to honor all three parties involved. You're right—even as someone looking from the outside, it can be very easy to just focus on that one happy day—happy moment—when the adoption is complete, and it feels like this new family has been formed. I'm wondering here: how as an adoptive parent—as a mom who has just gone through an adoption—what does that look like to honor the grief that you mentioned your child is going to have for the rest of their life—understandably so. And even the grief that you know is the reality. But also—you have been given this new son or daughter, and it is truly beautiful. What does it look like to honor those things? I like how you talked about having them both in one hand, but how do we see that practically play out?
Jen: I think it's crucial for adoptive parents to be really open and honest with their children from day one and to just say what's true all the time. What is true is that we can honor our children's birth families. I know that children are separated from their first families for various reasons. Some feel like, to us, horrific and unspeakable. It's not that we should share those kinds of details. What I'm getting at is that we should honor birth families where honor is due, and there is some measure of honor due to every birth family.
I would even argue—probably pretty incredible honor if you understand and value the story of those first families and what they, as moms and dads, were born into themselves and what they're navigating themselves. I think just—probably immeasurable honor is due then, even if, as the adoptive parent, you feel like there are some things that are just really horrifying to you. I would say: speak what's true and give the honor, give the credit, give the glory to God for the life of the mom and dad and the life of the child that they chose to give life to.
There's a lot of ways that we can express gratitude and celebrate first families and biological moms, and that should be done from day one. Then, at the same time, also acknowledging the loss, as we've already said—the brokenness and the separation that had to happen. And also saying, "I have had the gift from God above of being your mom, and I treasure that"—repeating that over and over and just voicing to your child your trust in God's sovereignty, his providence, his kindness in uniting you to your child and the treasure that that child is. Again, holding both of those things in both hands and speaking what is true.
Not exaggerating, not lying, but also not keeping things secret or shameful and also speaking in a way that's age appropriate, of course, and sharing things at the right milestones. I think it takes a village to do this well. I strongly encourage—I think it's probably imperative—that families pursue counseling and pursue that through Christian counselors who are trauma-informed—who are adoption informed—so that they are speaking in a healthy way to that whole triad. I think counseling is crucial for adoptive parents as well as adopted kids and biological kids.
Everybody's got things to sort through and work through. I would say—one way of holding both of those things in one hand is to pursue counseling. It's to have friends in your community who are also trauma-informed and adoption informed and who aren't going to say those really damaging sentences that mean well but leave a mark for a lifetime. This is a process that is lifelong, because every milestone, every birthday, every holiday, every developmental phase for your child is a reminder that they have lost their first mom and their culture and their first family.
It's not something that we can sort of heal from and move on. It's something that we have to process for a lifetime. I think, yes, for the adoptive mom out there, build a community who knows these things and seek their friendship. Make sure your child has relationships with those people who have this knowledge and this understanding and who will honor first moms and first families as well as adoptive and forever families.
Emily: I'm glad that you're talking openly about this and sharing some really practical things that we hope will help and serve adoptive moms in our community. I know at the end there, you're shifting the conversation towards the adoptee and some of the unique griefs that they experience—not just one time, but over the course of a lifetime. Is there anything else you would want to add to that? What are some of the griefs that adoptees might experience, and then, what does it look like for a mom to come alongside them in those sorrows?
Jen: Again, we are so saturated in a culture that just does not talk about these things. I know you guys have spoken before about the fact that we don't lament well as a people. We don't grieve well as a people. I think that is amplified in this particular conversation because we also really celebrate only the happy side of adoption. As a people, we're just ill-equipped to do this.
The adoptive parents have an arduous journey ahead of them to get prepared. I count adoption as one of the most precious gifts in our lives. I cannot fathom not having had this gift, and I would do it a million times over. Our daughter's precious to us. At the same time, I want the prospective adoptive families to know: you are going into something that's not a fairytale. You're not going into a fantasy. You're not walking into happily-ever-after. You will be the greatest source of healing for your child if you are willing. You can be a source of, I think, continued grief and continued trauma if you're not ready.
It's important that you prepare yourself. I think one of the best ways to do that is by centering the voice of the adoptee. There are beautiful memoirs and podcasts and tools available, where adoptees' voices are being centered more and more. I'm so thankful and cannot recommend that enough. A lot of them are hard to listen to at times. Some of them are not Christians, so they miss the focus of the gospel and the redemption of God and the reconciliation that he is doing. But they are nonetheless the voice of adoptees, and I think they're really valuable. As hard as they can be to listen to, I think it's important to hear unflinchingly what adult adoptees have to say looking back on what was good, what was hard.
Again, as I've said, this grief will last a lifetime, and it resurfaces frequently. As our daughter has grown and become a mom herself, that's a whole new wave of processing for her what she endured as a child now. And she's raising her own children from that perspective. I think it's key that adoptive parents be ready for that—be educated. Many agencies—I would say find a very good agency because they do require trauma training. I think that's so important.
Pursue those books and those podcasts and the community—the adoption community—where it's not all sunshine, but people are getting real about what is hard as well as beautiful and redemptive. We can do this, and we must do this. Adoption is a beautiful and holy calling. I just also want to impress upon the listener that it is hard, and you've got to be ready to be a tool of healing rather than a tool of accidental—even subconscious—unintentional, continued harm. So, it can be done.
I know so many godly, beautiful, wise adoptive parents who I seek their wisdom all the time, and they're doing it well. My daughter is thriving because of God's good hand in her life. I can talk openly with her about these things. That's coming—that is coming in the future. But there are years of just work as a family to put in.
Laura: Thank you for sharing that with us. It is encouraging to hear that no matter how hard it is, it's still worth it, and it's still possible. We know that as believers—that the gospel is a huge aid in that. It's something, as you noted, that gives us an entirely different perspective than those who do not know the Lord. Can you help us just understand and get a grasp on how the gospel has given you a deeper understanding and appreciation of adoption and how that helps you even in your griefs?
Jen: Yes, as believers, we know that our Father's heart is for the fatherless, and we know that adoption is his plan. It's his idea. His will is that no child would be without a mom and a dad. He's the one who designed families, and he's the one who welcomes us in, going so far as to have endured death on a cross to make us his own.
In our adoption journey, I have so chewed on those truths daily—meditated on them and even obsessed over the goodness of my Father in heaven and the lengths that he has gone to make me his daughter and to just provide healing and unconditional love and unconditional forgiveness and mercy in my life. It's important that all that we do as believers—and especially as adoptive parents—is couched in the gospel. This is key.
There were definitely verses throughout Scripture about adoption that really fueled us while we were waiting—that fueled us in some of the harder days of parenting. Absolutely gird yourself up with the gospel and the goodness of your Father.
One thing I would say that may feel a little bit jarring is: in the church, we love that metaphor. God has adopted us, so then we adopt the fatherless. It's a good metaphor, but it does fall short. I think it's really important that we acknowledge that. We adoptive parents are not God; we are not good like him. We are not omniscient, omnipotent, sovereign, and able like he is. We also are not a savior.
I think just being really gut-level honest—the conversations I have with other adoptive families is—whether it's conscious or not, and I think it's subconscious in pretty pervasive ways—we go into adoption wanting to rescue and save, and some of that is really good and some of that comes directly from God. What is true is that we won't be able to do that because we are fallen, and we are finite. We are not the savior, and we are not like God in so many ways. It's important to just realize that.
You have to do that as a mom. You guys talk about this all the time. You have to come to the end of yourself and realize, "I am not God. I am not enough, but he is, and he is there for me and my children." I feel like it's worth just repeating and even adding exclamation points for the adoptive parent because you are in this weird, unique situation where you do go in and rescue. You do go in and reconcile a child and bring them home and make them your own, and they inherit all that you have.
It is a picture of the gospel. Where it falls short is in the reality that will confront you about five seconds into you being an adoptive parent—that you are not good like God and that you don't have the immeasurable patience and mercy and goodness that he has.
What has comforted me—and you guys speak to this so well—is not depending on my perfection as an adoptive mom. Just acknowledging from the get-go, "I am going to screw this up"—and acknowledging that to my kids and saying, "I'm sorry." And looking back on dumb things that I said or sinful postures of my heart and apologizing and repenting and then asking for forgiveness and trusting God in heaven to meet my child—not only for the losses she endured in her first family but the losses she's enduring now in her forever family—the ways that I have painted a bad picture of who God is. Trusting that the Lord will meet me when I fall short, and he will meet her when I fall short, and that he is enough. I think that the gospel is a picture of adoption, and, at the same time, we are not God, but let us turn to God. Let us rely on him and encourage our children to do the same.
Emily: It's so rich. I think sometimes it can feel trite because Christians say over and over again to one another the things that we should say: "Jesus is better. Jesus is the only Savior. Only God is enough." Yet those are the answers and the truths that we need to remember over and over and over again. Regardless of what we're facing and experiencing in motherhood as Christians, that is our aim—to look to Christ and to point our children to Christ because, like you said, we will fail them. We will fall short no matter what circumstances we have or whether someone is an adoptive mom or not.
I love that we can all be united around that and say, "Yes, we're all pointing to the Savior. He's our only hope." Praise him that he doesn't put the hope within us and that just gives him all the more glory. Grateful for that word. Is there any final encouragement that you would give to a mom who is perhaps in the adoption process or she's already an adoptive mom and she is struggling with grief?
Jen: Yes, I would love to speak to her. I wish I could have coffee with her and come alongside her as a mom who's been in this for over thirteen years now. I would say, again, as we have said a few times already, adoption is worthwhile. It is important that children have moms and dads, and it is good for children without homes to be brought into homes. Don't second guess the goodness of this call. It is in alignment with God's heart. Do respond to that call in healthy ways with a community that can confirm that calling in your life, with the support of people around you saying, "Yes, I think your marriage can handle it. You are ready for it. You have a faith family. You have the support that you need."
Don't go into it blindly or thinking that love is all you need because that's just not true. Go into it prepared with an army of support and ready to respond to what's going to happen in your family as it changes as a result of adoption. My encouragement and even exhortation—and I say this to myself, first and foremost—is to be healthy and whole and ready. Truly, your relationship with your kids will be the strongest tool in the hands of God to heal their trauma. It's imperative that you are ready to respond to them with unconditional love and unwavering stability.
Children who've gone through trauma—and I know we are friends with so many adoptive families internationally, as well as foster care and domestically—kids who endure any kind of trauma present behaviors and needs that are not typical and that we are not generally ready for. If we take things personally or if we respond emotionally or if we have some sort of debt of need or love or affirmation that we want our adoptive kids to fill, we will place on them expectations and requirements that they cannot bear.
For adoptive moms, my encouragement would be: go to counseling; be in an adoptive community; have strong, mature Christian friends who have infused the gospel into every crevice and corner of your life—who will help you be firm in your foundation in the Lord, know who you are in Jesus, and be able to be filled by the Spirit and a conduit for the Spirit to your children. I think that adoptive moms do need to grieve a lot of losses. There's a lot of expectation for what it's going to be like. There's a lot of fantasy out there for what's ahead. That's true for motherhood in general. I think it's on steroids for adoptive motherhood.
There is grief. Grieve what you've lost or thought you would have that you're not going to have. Grieve what your child has lost and continues to lose every year, every milestone—but then cling to the cross and remember that our God is absolutely able to heal. When you're tempted to not believe that, cling to the cross again and call your friends and get your community around you to remind you of the strength and victory that we have in Christ and that that resurrection power is available to us as moms. You can do this by him, for him, through him, to him. You can do this with Jesus. You can't do it without him, though, so don't try.
I think my final encouragement to that mom is just twofold: one, be ready, because it's hard. Rejoice in it. It's good, and it's worth celebrating. Be ready to celebrate and be ready to work hard and call on the Lord your God in the good and the bad. He is sovereign and good, and he does bring healing. He is reconciling all things by the blood of his cross and don't believe otherwise.
