What We're Still Talking About 08: Children with Differences Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Emily Jensen: Over the years, you guys have maybe heard Laura and I talk about disability a lot because both of us have a child with a disability. So it's something we were discussing earlier on in Risen Motherhood, and it is still a topic that is on our hearts. To that end, I'm just really grateful to see how Laura has taken on that topic, even in some of her personal ministry, and is working to equip other moms to talk about this—even moms who have typically developing children. I'm really excited to share with you guys about Laura's new book called Like Me. You may have just heard a little bit about that in the pre-roll, but we're going to be digging into that a little bit today. Laura, why don't you kick us off and tell us all about your new children's book?
Laura Wifler: Oh, that was the sweetest lead-in, Em. Thank you. Like Me—it is my new kids' book, and I wrote it one day last winter—just on a snowy day—and it just poured out of me. It was definitely a culmination of a lot of the things that I had seen within my own kiddos—my typically developing kiddos as they interacted with my daughter with disabilities—and then also just the kids in the neighborhood. I really wanted to create a story that wasn't necessarily didactic in nature or necessarily gave all of the theology behind disabilities, because there are some really great books out there for that.
Instead, I was really hopeful to create a resource that any mom—any family type —could use that could really help them see what a day might look like if you have a sibling or a close friend with disabilities. Sort of naturally answer some of the questions that a child might have about disabilities—things like, "Hey, why does a kiddo speak differently? Why do they use adaptive equipment? What is therapy?" Many of the questions that I had been asked or kids had been asking our family, I was able to tuck into this book. And hopefully—it's a fiction story. Hopefully, through the storytelling, the reader will be able to glean some information, glean some wisdom, and parents can really use it as a springboard for conversations.
Emily: Yes, I really like the way you've approached it, and I think it's really unique because a lot of times as a parent when we're thinking about teaching our children a new topic or introducing it to them, I tend to go to the book that's got point by point by point all about this topic. And what I like is that this is just a story, and it's a story about a typically developing kid and what's going on in his family's life that day. It really is something that can draw a child in. Even the illustrations are really beautiful and really captivating.
I know you guys worked so hard to find something that does feel like that cozy, winter, vintage vibe, but at the same time, there's a lot of great and real depictions of disability and different adaptive equipment—the different types of kids that are in the therapy room—and just really trying to model that after real life. I know you and I even brainstormed, "Oh, when we are at therapy with our kiddos, what kinds of things do we see? What would be realistic?" We are really hopeful—I sound like I'm writing the book with you. [Laughter]
Laura: I mean, you kind of did. Everything we do is together. What are we saying?
Emily: You did a great job of just bringing all of those different elements in, and I know it will provide a lot of conversation fodder for parents and children, even if it's more subtle.
Laura: Yes, that's a good way to put it.
Emily: That's really great. And just tell us a little bit more—I know you were getting into your heart behind the book, but why do you feel like this is different from other books on disability and how might it especially equip parents?
Laura: I think one of the things of being a mom to a child with disabilities is: one of your greatest desires for them is to feel accepted, and it's to feel they have friends, and they have their place in the world. The title Like Me really came from a phrase that is used in the book where the main character talks about how his little brother who has disabilities is like him. He says, "He's like me," and there's this quote by C.S. Lewis that I've always really loved. It's from The Four Loves. He says, "Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What? You too? I thought I was the only one.'"
I didn't have that quote in mind as I wrote this book—and actually, somebody else brought it up to me, and I was like, "Yes, that is exactly the heartbeat of this book—to help children see how, while they may look and act and behave in different ways with a child with a disability, they can still find friendship. They can still find sameness." Sometimes I think as a parent, it just means that we have to help point that out. There is a lot of great conversation these days about differences and seeing them and accepting them and celebrating them. Those are good conversations. I think we need to continue to have those.
But what I find when I'm interacting with children with disabilities is: oftentimes, that's all they can see and all they can notice, so helping them to see, "Oh no, you guys like the same things. You guys have similar thoughts. You have the same types of desires," helps them see that child maybe isn't quite so other or so different. So that is really the heartbeat of the book—to not only help explain some of these surfacy questions, but ultimately to show—hey, there is a sameness there because you're both made in the image of God, and you can now form a friendship. You can now have a foundation for a relationship because you guys are like one another.
Emily: What you're really talking about there is developing compassion in our kids and awareness of how we are all made differently, but that doesn't mean that we treat someone rudely or unkindly. Or that we exclude them just because they talk a little bit different, or they need different equipment or whatever. I think that probably, depending on what your personal life circumstances are and who's in your circle, some people may feel more familiar with this topic than others. I grew up with a brother with disabilities. I've been around Special Olympics and special-ed classes at school or whatever for as long as I can remember.
For me, this topic feels very familiar, and I almost forget to talk about it sometimes because it's so familiar to me, but then we know that there are other moms who are listening who—maybe you homeschool or maybe you have children at home and you're not out in the community a ton yet—or if they're not in public school or you don't have someone at your church or someone in your family, you may not be running across these things quite as often. Yet, the most recent US census in 2020 said that three million kiddos in the United States have a disability, and one in four adults in the US have a disability, so it is really common.
It is something all of our children will run across at some point or another. I think the question is: how do we equip them—disciple them—to think about this through the lens of the gospel? I think that's something, like you said, you're not explicitly doing in this book by giving a theology of it—but by exposing them to it so that moms can hopefully have that conversation as time goes on. Can you help us think through that—give moms some truths that they can go back to whenever they're wanting to give a gospel explanation for disability?
Laura: Yes. I think this is what can feel like, "Please don't ask me that question." We all want to avoid it when our kids say, "Why do they have disabilities?" or "Why would God make her like that?" I know when my older children first asked me that, I was just like, "I don't know how to answer that question," and it is hard and complicated. I have a lot of compassion for moms and dads who feel ill-equipped in that question. Yet, it's something that—I think if you start to just boil it down to maybe four foundational truths—there are many truths that you can share on this topic. What I'm going to share here isn't exhaustive, but the way that I often think about it is four foundational truths to teach your child.
The first is that we're all Imago Dei or made in God's image. The second is that the fall affects everyone, and a disability is the result of living in a fallen world. Third, God is sovereign over how each of us was formed. And fourth, God is always good.
Just to give a little bit of color to each of those—again, it won't be exhaustive, but that idea that we're all made in God's image—that means that no matter someone's abilities, the stamp of God is on each and every one of us. We can know that there is a sameness, and you can help your child to see that, "Hey, everyone in our family is different, yet there is a sameness, because we're made in the image of God, and so that means we're all equally loved, equally valuable, equally cared for."
The second truth is: the fall affects everyone, and disability is a result of living in a fallen world. This is the root question: "Why do they have disabilities? How did that happen?" And we know that disability or delays can be the result of abuse or neglect from a caregiver or a parent. Sometimes it's something that happens spontaneously or over time from an illness or an accident. Then, of course, we have children who are born with disabilities, and that usually results from some sort of underlying health or genetic condition. There are a lot of different ways that disabilities can come about, but in most cases, the specific cause isn't necessarily super clear. We can know that regardless of the diagnosis or the cause, we can teach our children that we can focus on having compassion for others, rather than looking for who was at fault. We just want to train them on having compassion and recognizing, again, that image of God.
The third is God being sovereign over how each of us was formed. This is that idea that, just as God chose your child's hair color and size of their feet, what activities they would excel at—he also formed every limp, irregular organ, every stutter, every eye that is blind. Exodus 4:11 is a good place to go back to here. God talks to Moses, and he asks him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?" That can be a hard truth, but we know that every chromosome, every gene, every atom God commands at his will.
That last truth: God is always good. We know from John 9 that Scripture tells us God is glorified through disability.
This is something where, especially seeing my kids interact with their sibling with disabilities—at times, we know that it's not always easy. It doesn't always feel good. It can be really hard, and yet, as they have those interactions, we know that God is sanctifying them. He is teaching them what it means to obey his commands—what it means to love other people. I think about my kids and just how much they're being shaped by having a sibling with disabilities. And even their teachers have commented about different things with my kids of just being kind and sweet.
Of course, that comes through a lot of different methods, and God can use all sorts of ways to mold our children into his likeness, but disabilities is one of those ways. A lot of times, that's what I fall back to with my kids—to say, "Hey, I don't really know why God chose that for our daughter, but I do know that he is good, and I do know that he is for their good." I try to remind them of that truth as well.
Emily: Those are so good and so rich. I just want to take a moment to pause too and say—if you are a mama of a kiddo with a disability, and you feel like you haven't even gotten your arms around this truth yet, we understand. It’s really hard. Sometimes this can take a lot of years of study and digging into the Word and doing some research on this topic and what Scripture says about it and what we should believe doctrinally. And even if you get to a head knowledge, there still might be some wrestling or some emotional struggle that comes through this.
Just know, as we're communicating these truths, that it's okay to not have arrived yet. It's okay to feel like these are hard tensions—this is hard for my human brain to understand. Just to add on more truths—not to make it more complex, but some things we've been really blessed by in our family, as we've talked about this, is one, just thinking about how a lot of times in even the Gospels, their disability—and even illness or disease—is shown as an external picture of an internal reality.
Showing them like, just as Jesus heals these—that's very visible—like a lame man now leaping and walking and praising God. That is a picture of us in our inability to live for God, and after we get a new heart—after trusting in Christ—we are able to walk in the steps of Christ. Being able to draw some of those—some of that imagery for them and then also just increasing their hope for heaven and seeing that, just as Jesus did heal and did approach these people and did cause the blind to see and the mute to speak, that is just a foretaste of what's coming eternally.
Even giving them excitement about heaven when they think about their sibling or their uncle or whatever. How exciting it will be to know them without those disabilities. There's just a lot of really great gospel truths. Just so you guys know, Laura I don't like sit down our kids and give them a theology of this all at once—
Laura: Now let’s go through the four parts . . . [Laughter] No, no, no, no.
Emily: These are just little gospel seeds that are scattered throughout conversation over the course of time, and these are things that families that don't have kids with disabilities can and should talk about from time to time, even as you run across it in the Scriptures.
Laura: Yes, and those four truths are not relegated to disabilities only. They should be in a lot of different conversations. And I like what you're saying, Emily, with just the hope of heaven. It reminds me of the very famous Tolkien quote in Lord of the Rings: "Someday everything sad will come untrue." That is a hope that we talked about a lot in our family. Just like—another comparison that has helped with kids is— oftentimes they can zone in on maybe another child's differences or hard things.
My daughter often has very high medical needs, so she can be in the doctor's office a lot. We'll say, "Yes, but also, you wear glasses, and you see the doctor, or you have seen a therapist before for speech." We help kids see that, like, "Hey, everybody needs a little bit of help sometimes," or "You have a soccer coach, or you have a piano teacher." I think that's something too that can help kids have a paradigm for disability—to just see that, "Oh, yes, everybody needs a little bit of help. Everybody needs to be taught a few things," and that's been helpful to explain things like therapy or things like doctor's appointments and things like that—but then also draw us all to that day when, "Oh, we won't need to be seeing the doctor. Will doctors not exist?" [Laughter]
Emily: The Great Physician will exist.
Laura: Yes, their one and only doctor.
Emily: Sorry. That was almost like a dad joke.
Laura: That was a Jesus juke, but that's okay. I like it.
Emily: All right. These were all proactive things that we can do, right? Things we kind of think about in advance. We prepare our children's hearts to encounter children with disabilities and how to think about that, but then there are these in-the-moment situations that arise. Where—this has happened with my typically developing kids—even though they have a sibling with a disability, they still blurt out things in public, or they just stare, and then I just come up and gently tap them on the shoulder and like, "Come over here for a minute, little buddy. Let's talk."
What happens when we're in public, and our kids say something insensitive or seemingly rude to another child, like "What's that on their legs?" whenever they see their AFO braces or "Why are they in a wheelchair?" or "Why can't you talk?" or something like that? Those are real things that young children say, just plain out of curiosity. What do you do in that situation?
Laura: I think the first thing is—what you said there is, if it's coming out of pure curiosity, then there's one category of things to do, but if it is something that's mean or unkind or something that is intentionally rude, it is a certain time to just step in— stop them immediately. You're going to deal with that differently than how we're going to talk about it now, because, like you said, most kids—I mean, you and I both have been on the receiving side of this where most kids are just literally blurting out the first thought that comes in their head—probably the same one you're wondering—and it's pretty simple to deal with.
I think we can overcomplicate it, or sometimes we feel very embarrassed, and we shush our kids. I know I've found myself even doing that at times, but instead, I think the best thing to do is just to acknowledge it and say—answer your child's question. "What are those things on their legs?" "Those are AFO braces, and they help them to walk," or if you don't know what AFO, SMOs—there's all these acronyms that probably is insider language—but just say, "Those are braces that help them to walk. It helps their legs be strong."
"Why do they use a wheelchair?" "It helps them get where they need to go." Or "Why do they talk like that?" "Well, they are communicating in the best way they know how." Maybe, you can say something like, "Their mind works differently than yours" or something along those lines of helping to explain it. You will probably feel a little self-conscious of the adult listening, but just know that they are not, in general, sitting there judging you.
They've probably heard it all, and it's really wonderful, probably, for them to just hear you step in and deal with it. Then, second, once you answer the child's question, then just move to redirecting the conversation to something positive. You can say, "Oh, there's footballs on their braces. You love football! Isn't that so cool?" Or "Look, she's smiling. We know she's happy. We're happy too" or something along those lines.
It's helpful if you acknowledge the question and then do a positive redirect to show sameness—show likeness. That's one of the big things that I'm trying to point out through the book. Afterwards, you have the debrief; you go into the car, you go into another room—wherever it is that's naturally—later on that you're going to talk about it. Just say, "Hey, do you remember that kid on a wheelchair? Hey, do you remember that child with the braces? Do remember that child that acted a little bit differently over there?"
Then talk to them about what disability is. That's a perfect chance to have the conversation about God's design for disability, how he loves people who think differently or act differently than us—that doesn't mean that we can't be friends with them, or we need to stay away from them. These are chances for you to really answer a lot of those questions and to just get in there with the conversation. Doesn't have to be long. You don't have to belabor it but have the conversation.
Emily: Yes, and I think one of the things that allows that to happen is exposure. It's interacting with and coming in contact with somebody who has a disability. Some disabilities are more visible, and they do have adaptive equipment, or they do have a cochlear implant, or something that you can see. Then, there are some disabilities that are a little bit harder to identify, and there may be behavioral differences. Those are even good things to be aware of and maybe give your kids words for, again, after the fact.
I think, even if you're somebody who doesn't have a kiddo with disabilities in your immediate sphere—maybe not in your immediate family, not a niece or a nephew, not in your friend group, whatever—there are still a lot of opportunities for you to have this conversation. Just keep an eye out because it's in a lot of advertisements these days. Like for kids' toys or catalogs that—we still get mail catalogs from all the toy stores and stuff.
Laura: How do we get on those lists?
Emily: I don't know.
Laura: I'm like, "What? Where are these coming from?"
Emily: I don't know where they come from, but they show up and there's kids with adaptive equipment in there. There are movies and books where there are different characters that have different types of disabilities—and even stopping to point that out to kiddos. Or you can even be really intentional and proactive and say, "Hey, we're going to go to this Special Olympics event," or "We're going to go to this baseball game." I know our son with disabilities was in a special league this summer, and we had all of our kids go and watch because all the questions came up as they saw just about every type of adaptive equipment that was out on that field.
Even just them having to have patience to sit through the game and realize that the rules are a little bit different. And how do some of the helpers interact? It was just really, really good time for them to see. You don't have to have a child with a disability to take them to a game like that or to take them to an event or to have them volunteer. Certainly, once kids get into the public school environment, if that is an option that your family chooses, there's a lot of classroom integration and peers and opportunities there. I think just the lesson is: open your eyes to where those conversations could happen.
Laura: It's absolutely there. You just have to have the eyes to see. I think that, like Emily is saying, there's a lot more inclusion now, and so there's a lot more positive representations of disability. But something else to think through too is—maybe you are watching one of those old Disney movies or there's some just negative depictions. Particularly 10, 20 years ago, people weren't as sensitive as they are now, and so that is a place where, too, you can talk with a child of like, "Do you think that was God-honoring, or do you think that you would treat them differently, or you would behave differently?"
Those can be good conversations where, again, you don't have to have this long, belabored thing, but bring it up in the car the next day of like, "Hey, remember when we were watching that? Do you really know that Captain Hook was an amputee?" You don't really think like that, but there is a lot of stuff out there and ways, especially as your kids get older. Say you are in the middle years. You can have even some of those maybe harder-to-stomach conversations where it's like, "Hey, here's some of the history of disabilities, and here's where we haven't done it right. Here's some of the difficulties they've gone through, and we want to change that going forward."
Emily: We even will talk about words in books that we've read or things we've watched. The word "stupid" comes up a lot or "idiot" or whatever.
Laura: Retard.
Emily: There's a lot of history we could get into about words with disability. I think that some of these words and this type of pattern of speaking just gets into our conversation, and it just gets into the way that we talk about things. You don't realize that you're using slurs or things about disability. Helping our kids see that as well.
Let's transition a little bit to talking about how to help our kids not just notice and think about disability but to actually move into relationship with somebody with a disability. What does that look like?
Laura: This goes back to what we talked about at the beginning—friendship is really built on sameness. It is so good to have diversity in friendships and it is so good to see a lot of differences being displayed. At the core of it, even if you're very, very different from someone else, typically, that friendship is formed by something like, "Oh, we like the same movie," "Oh, we shop at the same place," "Oh, we really have the same hobby or the same interest." A really key thing to help your child see is to see how they can become friends with kids with disabilities. That might be just the same as like, "Hey, they have the same desires as you to laugh and have fun. They love s'mores like you do. They love campfires like you do."
There can be different things that you might have to work a little bit harder at than maybe two typically developing kids have to, but, as parents, this is really, really taught. This is a big one that we see. Emily and I have both been on the receiving end of being enormously blessed by parents and teachers who teach this so incredibly well. Even just the other day, I had a mom who was talking about the bus and just saying, "Hey, seeing these boys all gather and be good friends, which we love and we're so thankful for," but she just said, "Hey, tomorrow on the bus, I want you to see somebody who doesn't have a buddy on the bus and sit by them and be friends with them."
I think that, again, it's just our natural move. Even as adults, it's like, "Hey, who's easy to be with? Who's fun to be with?" But help your child see that, no—there can be friendship and fun built, but you might have to take a second look. Then it's just amazing to see a friendship that does flourish there.
Emily: I love that. What you're saying is really it takes some facilitation, right?
Laura: Yes.
Emily: Like any other skill that we teach our kids where—this might be a little uncomfortable at first, and you might not be sure how to do it, but over time, with practice, with exposure, with training, you may come to grow to really love this or that thing. The same is true for spending time with somebody who is different or maybe communicates differently or gets around differently or doesn't act the same in a social situation. Even with our own kiddos, we've had to teach our siblings of a child with disabilities to sit down and play ball—do an activity that he likes. At first, they might think, "This is boring. I want to go out and play football with my brothers in the backyard."
Over time, they see that there is joy there. As they figure out how to interact with him and how to communicate with him, they come to enjoy it. You have to get over that initial sense of "I'm uncomfortable."
Laura: It's awkward. It can feel awkward.
Emily: "I'm awkward. I'm scared." It's so fun to see how their friendships really can thrive even in the midst of that. I think that's one thing that children just do really, really well, is they're very flexible with that, and they're very adaptable and just quick to move past that and become more comfortable. As we close here, there was this line in the book that I just wanted to highlight that you share with your own kids. I thought it was just a really helpful truth, so I'm wondering if you could just expand on it a little bit here as we close. It says, "God loves you, God made you, and God is kind to you." What brought those words to the surface and why would those be truths that moms listening might want to speak over their children?
Laura: For a long time, my daughter was nonverbal, and we were actually told that she probably would never walk or talk. She now does both, and it is an incredible miracle that we're so thankful for. I kept just thinking like, "What do I want my daughter to know? What are the truths that I deeply want in her heart?" These really were uttered as a prayer for me that I would just speak over her—I'm going to cry—I would just speak those over her when she was so little and just wanting her to know that God loves her, that God made her, and that God is kind to her.
It is a true joy to hear her finish those sentences. She can't say the whole thing quite yet, but she can finish the sentences. And I speak them over all of my kids now, and it is such a joy to just hear them finish that. Just truths that I pray are deep in their heart—truths that I believe will change their lives forever.
In the book, the mom speaks those over her two boys. My hope and prayer is that whatever you are speaking over your children, that all the parents are just teaching their children how, no matter their abilities, no matter how God made them physically, and what they can do—that they would just remember that God loves all his children. God made all of his children perfectly and intentionally and God is kind to all his children. That's just the heartbeat behind it. It's just really a prayer for all kids.
Emily: If you want to learn more about Laura's new book Like Me, head to our show notes, and you can pre-order it anywhere books are sold. Remember, it comes out January 10. Again, if you pre-order the book, there are all sorts of great bonuses. You can find out about that at risenmotherhood.com/books.
