What We're Still Talking About 02: Interruptions Transcript

Emily Jensen: Oh man, Laura, I don't know if you remember this from the early years, but it felt like the whole day was full of interruptions—like I couldn't even get the dishwasher loaded without a toddler trying to climb into the dishwasher or taking dirty dishes back out as fast as I put them in. It just felt like everything about the day was broken up by little needs or things I had to respond to.

Laura Wifler: Oh, absolutely. It's like the moment you sit down on the couch is the moment the baby cries. I feel like the word "interruptions" is the theme of motherhood. As you know, one of our most popular shows early on was "A Bad Moment Doesn't Have to Make a Bad Day. " It really talked about, hey—what's our response when we have an interruption? I think that this is just so key—something to be discussed because we thought—you and I thought—"When our kids get older"— over the age of five (all of our kids are above five and up now)—"we will not have as many interruptions."

Emily: Yes, this is going to stop.

Laura: Exactly. Exactly. [Laughter] But no, it's somehow like this is still—flexibility is the key of motherhood.

Emily: Absolutely. You and I have probably talked more about this in some ways in the last year or so because our expectations have changed. Like you said, with older kids, you think, "Well, I've made my plan for my time—that I'm going to get my work done or I'm going to exercise or I'm going to run to the grocery store—or I have these certain plans and my kids can—they're a little bit more self-sufficient." It seems like things should be more predictable, but no, those times still don't happen as we expected. Something comes up. Somebody gets sick. Somebody has some issue, some ailment.

Laura: Yes. It's like a holiday, or it's a snow day, or there is something going on. I know this week that we're recording is the first week of school, and my friends, I'm running on fumes. I'm not going to lie because my daughter has been up most of the night the past few nights and just really more demanding during the day. I had saved up all this stuff that I wanted to do for the first week of school. I was like, "Lord, I waited five years for all three kids to go to school," and the Lord is like, "No, Laura, you need to wait one more week. I’m gonna interrupt this week. One more week until all three of your kids—you have a little bit more time in your day."

Emily: Related to this topic, you and I, I think, have noticed that as motherhood has gone on—we're a decade into motherhood now—there are bigger things that haven't gone according to plan. Not just my work schedule for the day or the things on my to-do list that I wanted to get finished, but aspects of life that we just weren't expecting—things that we have on our plate that maybe have a whole ripple effect or litany of implications into all the different aspects of life, and that's been pretty challenging.

Laura: Em and I both have kids—many of you guys know—with disabilities. That's been a big one for both of our lives. It's been something where we didn't set out thinking that motherhood would contain that, but it has, and that's a really big part of our lives, and it's changed. When you have a child with a disability, you end up in therapies and hospitals and all different places.

It really has been something that's been unexpected for both of us. And just dealing and walking through the grief of that—I know for a lot of moms, there are things that they have that are similar with griefs that in a way interrupt what they thought would be their regularly scheduled life. Things like miscarriage and seasons of infertility or a divorce or the sickness of a parent, moving, and other transitions. There are a lot of major life things that maybe you didn't foresee coming that feel like, "Hey, this has interrupted my life. It has set my life on a different trajectory than I originally intended."

Emily: Absolutely. Whether it's a snow day that we weren't planning on, or it's something more significant—like the need of a good friend or somebody in your church family that has a child go to the hospital and you want to take care of their other kids—it kind of interrupts whatever your schedule was or your plan for the day or the week. We continue to face these things in motherhood, and we continue to need gospel truth to counsel our hearts through those tough situations.

Laura: Okay. Well, let's pop into some of the gospel truths that we are still rehearsing. I think we have a few questions here that we can ask to help us see where our expectations lie. The first question is: "What did I think this was going to be like?" Really, I think when a lot of us imagine motherhood, pre-motherhood days, we did not imagine that it included the fall.

We imagined that it would just be this perfect, idealized—God's perfect design back in Eden. We would be living that out right here in that already-but-not-yet. In reality, the fall includes so many different things. We have not only the pain of just general living in a world that is broken; there is pain, there is suffering, there is hardship and frustration, and there's also sin—our own sin and others’ sin that we're dealing with.

All of these things are at play in our motherhood, and we don't want to be pessimist about this, but we also need to frame our expectations to say, "Hey, life probably isn't going to go as planned, and things are going to be more chaotic than I want. There are going to be roadblocks. There are going to be difficulties. There are going to be sorrows and trials." I think when we flip our mindset and say, "Hey, what did God promise? " Oh yes, he said, "In this world you will have tribulations."

Emily: You will.

Laura: You will.

Emily: Yes.

Laura: That's John 16. We will have tribulations. It doesn't say you will have an easy life—you will have this non-bumpy, non-suffering life. Persecution, trials, suffering—those things are promised to us for a time—not for always but for a time. And so, we have to sit there and put on the right lenses and say, "What do I expect that I'm going to have in this life, and what can my expectations be for the kind of things that I'm going to be experiencing?"

Emily: On a macro level, we don't always know what those things are going to be. They're often different for every mom and every family. I know as Laura and I look around at our friends and our extended community and network, we see a variety of different interruptions in every mom's life. Their motherhood is not going as they thought, whether that's because of unexpected seasons of infertility or repeated miscarriages or, again, diagnoses with disability or their own chronic health issues, or maybe their marriage is facing challenges that they weren't expecting. The list just goes on and on.

There really is no mom that we know of that's ten years into this that hasn't faced a significant challenge on some front or another. I think that's something I remember someone telling me when I was a young mom, and I don't know if I totally took it to heart. I don't know if you can always take some of that advice to heart, but looking back, I think I just wasn't far enough along in motherhood yet to have crossed some of those bridges, but everybody is going to, and so even if you have a friend yet that hasn't, she will.

Everyone will have something in their life where they suffer and struggle. Sometimes it's to different degrees, sometimes it's hidden, but we should expect that there are going to be those things in our lives, both on a small level and on a large level.

Laura: Alright. The next question we can all ask ourselves is "What did I think I had a right to?" I think when something doesn't go according to our plan, there's a normal frustration.

There's just a normal recognition of, "Yes, okay, this is the way life goes. It doesn't always go the way that I want," and it doesn't even necessarily have to be sin. It's just an acknowledgement of, "Hey, yes, this is already-but-not-yet. This is just what life is." And yet, sometimes when we're thinking these things, we can get caught up in this thought process of like, "Oh, but God, you owe me this. You owe me the right to a certain type of life because I have worked hard for you. I have done things for you. I really thought through exactly how to get the right schedule for the fall, and I included Bible study in there," and so we feel like God owes us something—that we can just be this master of our own fate.

Then, of course, everything will funnel all together, then we're very confused and hurt and upset when it doesn't all work out. So I think that this question can be seen when you have maybe a disproportionate response to something that is interrupting your day or a really highly charged response, but it can also just be like an underlying, quiet thought that we have where we feel like, "Okay, what the heck, Lord? Why didn't you make good on that because I thought that I had done everything right and now you're not being good to me."

Emily: Yes. I think more often than not when this happens, we find that we're not longing for heaven—we're longing to rule our own kingdom. As moms, I think we live in this tight balance of control, like you were saying—if I could just master the Google Calendar and I can coordinate all the childcare and I can get all my ducks in a row and I can do it perfectly and faithfully, then I can have an interruption-free day and I can get all of these things done.

I can essentially become like God, and I can master my own kingdom, and that was the original lie of the serpent: just be like God. But you know what? Our God is in the heavens, and he does all that he pleases, not all that we please. All that he pleases. Another verse that I know we've all heard, but it's worth saying again, Proverbs 19:21: many are the plans in the mind of a mom, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

We have our plans, and those plans are good, and it's good that we try to be strategic and get all of our ducks in a row, but ultimately, it's God's will for our day that will stand. Sometimes we lose track of that, that this is our Father's world. We are just living in it. We have to have that paradigm shift and that mindset shift each day in order to handle the things that are unexpected to us.

Laura: Longing for heaven is a good thing. That's a normal thing. That's something that we are supposed to be looking for: Christ's return. It's the whole maranatha attitude, which I think is a beautiful mindset. Sometimes, though, I've even seen this—where it’s become this "I just want to go to heaven" thing. It kind of veers into this escapist mentality that we can have about our lives, where we're kind of struggling to be present in the here and now. Feeling so much like this world is not our home—feeling so much like we long to go to heaven—that we become discontent with where God has us. And so, I think of Paul in Philippians when he is talking about, "Hey, for me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."

He goes on to explain that "Man, I'm just really, really struggling here of whether or not I want to stay here with you or to be with God. Actually, I know I want to be with God, but I know that it's necessary for me to remain," and he's talking about that tension and that pull, of feeling like, "I am made for heaven, and I want to be with my King, but God has work for me to do here, and so I want to be faithful in my life."

I think that's something that we can all settle on. There is a healthy, good, right response to saying, "I am longing for heaven to come, and I am waiting for heaven," but we are active in the wait. We are working in the wait, and we are saying, "Okay, Lord, as long as you have me here, I want to be faithful. I want to go and live out the Great Commission. I want to make disciples. I want to move forward the kingdom— expand that circle out of the kingdom." That's kind of a tension that we live in as moms, as Christians—to have a right view of what it looks like to long for heaven.

Emily: Another question to ask when interruptions come is "What type of pressure was I putting on this?"—"this" being things going exactly the way I planned. Sometimes interruptions can be frustrating because we're trying to live beyond our reasonable limits. We are so tightly scheduled—we're so packed full—that one unexpected thing causes the whole thing to come crashing down.

I know over the years at R|M, we've talked a lot about the concept of humility. One of the interviews we did early on was with Hannah Anderson about this, and she says, "Humility is a right self-concept where you understand who you are as a limited, created person who is a servant to her King. It means embracing the boundaries of our humanity."

Just as she's talking about there—the boundaries of our humanity—sometimes interruptions send us over the edge when we've rejected the boundaries of our humanity, and we are not being realistic about what we can achieve anyway in the twenty-four hours that God has given us. I remember learning my lesson last fall when I saw—my daughter went off to preschool in the afternoons, and it was the first time I'd had a period of time where all my kids were in school during some period of the day, and I saw twelve hours on that calendar.

Laura: Oh, yes, that looks so good.

Emily: I scheduled twelve hours of work and volunteering, and guess what? That worked one day, and then it never worked again because I was not accounting for all of the things that of course were going to happen—the sick days, the snow days, the unexpected doctor's appointments, the needs of family and friends that came up. I was frustrated not because there were bad things happening in my life but because my schedule was so tight that it left no room for flexibility and for the Lord to bring unexpected, good works into my life that he had for me to do that day. So, I'm taking that lesson into this fall, as I've been planning and looking at my schedule. I need to leave actually some blank space.

Laura: Yes, I think Emily sent me a text. It was like, "I'm doing two-thirds full"—No. Did you say-—

Emily: Like maybe 50%.

Laura: One-third full. [Laughter] Yes, that's funny. Yes, sometimes I imagine life like a Jenga tower, and we can build it up, and it gets really, really tall. And there is an element of—okay, everybody knows that the tower is going to fall soon, but it's still pretty strong. You've still got like five or six blocks yet that you can pull out and it'd be okay, but then you get to that point in the Jenga tower where you're like, "Oh man, any moment it's just going," and everybody is kind of cringing as they take things out. That's what I think is a good picture of what we can do in our lives where—I know when I was recovering from burnout, there were both things I had committed to and then there were things that they were out of my control.

Honestly, they could never have been predicted—like my daughter getting diagnosed with special needs. It was like, well, that just—you don't plan for that. Or my husband falling out of a tree and breaking his leg. You don't plan for that. Those things happened within like two weeks of each other. You guys, it was insane, and it felt like there are times where our life becomes that crazy Jenga tower, and it's not because we didn't get the schedule right. It just happened.

There are some seasons where I think we have to say, "This is the season the Lord has me in. He will sustain and provide. There is grace waiting for me in this moment." We can trust God in that, and we can look—I remember, Emily and I—we talked and said, "Okay, what are the knobs that we can turn? What are the things?" And she had to come in as a third-party, outside, objective viewer of my life and be able to say, "Okay, here, Laura, here are some things that we can do." But in general, there wasn't a lot I could change, to be really honest. There wasn't a lot.

I had to survive that season, get through it, trust the Lord, and he taught me a lot of lessons. But then I think that we can go back and say, "Okay, how can I leave room in my life, where there are like five or six blocks in the Jenga?" Because we know sometimes it's going to end up being in that season of just one little block and everything is going over.

Emily: Yes, so true. I think another question we have to ask ourselves sometimes is just, "Was I here to serve or here to be served?" In motherhood, I think the reality is—and honestly just in the Christian life—is that we are here to serve God and others. Our purpose is to glorify God, as we love others the way Christ has loved us. And he called himself a servant. He said, "I came to serve," and so that is such a critical mission in our lives. I think sometimes when interruptions come, we lose sight of that.

Think of the picture of a servant or someone in the service industry getting their tasks and instructions from their employer. If their employer needs something different, they can come to them and say, "Oh, I'm going to change up your day today. I'm going to have you do this instead of that," and the servant or the employee is happy to accommodate whatever their boss needs in that moment because that's part of their job.

The Bible literally speaks of us as God's vessels, as his servants. If we have that mindset, then we are willing to receive and accommodate whatever changes he has for our day and to see, "Oh, this is what the Lord has assigned for me to do next." And that's actually a good thing because he has my good in mind, not like, "Ugh, I can't believe he would ask me to do that."

Laura: Totally. One of my big mantras that I repeat is "be available." Some of that comes in like—I literally schedule on my to-do list "be available time." There is truly—3:00 to 5:00, I want to be available for my kids. But also going off what you're talking about, Emily, I think that there is a very real reality of "What does it mean to walk by the Spirit?" A lot of us as Christians are just like bulldozing through our days—Laura Wifler, I'm a super scheduler. I love plans and calendars and scheduling my life.

I have to remember, "No, no, no. Slow down." Like, if the Spirit brings a friend to mind, pop them a text right then. I want to have enough margin in my day that I can say, "Yes, I do have time to send that text to a friend that's come to mind. Yes, I do have time to craft an email that is well done and thoughtful," and isn't just like, "Oh yes, yes, yes, yes" but instead remembers, "Oh, they had a major life event happen, and I can reference that, and I can say a prayer for them and truly try to encourage them." I want to have margin in my day.

Again, you will go through seasons where this is not a luxury you can afford. I think about single moms right now. I think about moms who are doing foster care. Or you're just full to the brim.

There will be seasons—and maybe long, long seasons of your life—but if you have the luxury of a flexible schedule, if you can, think through, "Hey, how can I carve out some time in my day that just says, 'Lord, whatever you want to lead. Whatever you have for me.'" I think even for the women who are in really, really full schedules and full seasons, we can still say—wake up in the morning and say, "Lord, whatever you have for me, I want to listen to that. I want to have eyes to see, I want to have ears to hear," and that's a posture that I think—maybe it's just the American mentality—like, we don't make room for.

Emily: Yes, I know, lately, one of the things I've been praying is, "Lord, I receive this from you," and it's actually a really hard thing for me to pray when something comes up that I don't want. When I am removing my son from a situation because he's having a meltdown and I can't be with my friends, or I can't stand there at the pool and have the conversation or whatever it is. Just to say, "God, I receive this from you." To receive something is to accept a gift from a giver.

Scripture tells us that God is the giver of all good gifts. "Every perfect gift is from above," and sometimes good things come disguised as so-called interruptions or unexpected trials. So, if I really believe that God has the best plan for my life and for my day, and if I believe that he loves me and I trust him in that, then wouldn't I willingly and joyfully receive whatever he gives, even if it's hard and it's not my plans?

I have this verse sitting next to my bed right now. Psalm 16:5 says, "Lord, you have assigned my portion and my cup." God has assigned what I would get in my life and what kind of trials would come and what kind of good things would come. All those different things—he has assigned that for me. I want to receive that because Isaiah 55:9 says that God's ways are higher than my ways, and his thoughts are higher than my thoughts.

I love this verse, too. It's a hard one to think about. 1 Corinthians 1:25: "The foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength." That just goes to show—my very best, smartest, well-crafted thought is nothing compared to God's wisdom. It's just nothing compared to what he can come up with. So that has been a practice for me—just saying, "I receive, Lord. I receive this from you."

Laura: I love that. I think that is a beautiful picture of what all of our hearts' postures should be, and I know that that is something that I have to ask myself: "Hey, what is my response when I'm interrupted?"

I think interruptions really do show us kind of who we truly are in that moment, and they show us the state of our spirit. Because, if we get interrupted—whether that's a large-scale trial that's going to alter the rest of our life or that's just that day where your kiddo is coming up ten times because you're trying to get some work done, and they keep saying, "I need this, Mom. I need this drink of water." We erupt in anger or we get impatient or we feel frustrated—that shows us where our hope is being placed and where our identity is being found in that moment.

I think that has been a conviction for me, to ask, "Okay, what did the interruption show about where I'm placing my trust, and then, how can I change that? How can I repent of that? How can I come to the Lord and say, 'Father, help me to receive?'" I love that, Emily—help me to receive. Help me to be available. Help me to have a humble heart posture that says, "I'm just a vessel, and I just want to do your work, Lord." Whatever that may look like—whether that's something I deem as too humble or too low as sweeping the floors, and it doesn't feel like it's moving the needle. Or that's something where, "Hey, I'm going to go, and I can evangelize to my neighbor in this moment," and it feels really special and big. We see all of that as work from the Lord and we capitalize on these opportunities that he puts in front of us, and we listen to the promptings of the Spirit.

Emily: Here's a good question for us to end on. The question we should really be asking is "Do interruptions really exist or is it just a matter of our perspective?" It’s an interruption to us because we can't see it coming, and we don't know God's plans, but all of these things have been on God's radar all along. It was the next sentence in the story for us, not an interruption to what he was doing in our lives. I think if we viewed life's unexpected changes in that way, we would realize that this is not a roadblock—this is actually the next step God has planned for us on the road that we would glorify him and become more like Christ.