Whole 10: When You Give Grace to Everyone But Yourself Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Emily Jensen: I think it's so interesting how, in motherhood, we can be pretty hard on ourselves and put our needs last. Case in point being: everyone else is sitting at the table, and we're standing at the counter eating bits of everyone's leftovers or eating cold food because we thought, "Oh, everyone else needs to eat. Everyone else needs to have their hot food, but I'm fine. I can just take everyone's scraps—no big deal." That's true in a lot of areas in life.
It's funny because I started washing my laundry separate from our family's because I used a different laundry detergent. This doesn't matter.
Laura Wifler: Oh, this is fun news.
Emily: It's allergy relief—stuff like that. Anyways, it doesn't matter. I realized that I was washing everyone's laundry, and my laundry pile was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. There was one point where I was like, "I don't have the undergarments that I need. I don't have my pajamas." I was like, "Where are all my clothes?" Because I had been washing it alongside my family's. And I just kept putting my laundry load off. I was like, "Everyone else needs clothes, but me? I can go longer. I'm good." Even something little like that—you realize how quickly you are to be like, "No, I'll just go to the back of the line. No big deal."
Laura: Totally. What's funny is that we would never let our friends do that. I'm sitting here thinking, "No, do your laundry, Emily. You need clothes."
I have one friend of mine who I just adore, and she's always talking to me like, "Don't talk about yourself like that. Don't think like that. Don't put yourself last." She's really good at reminding me to take care of myself.
I almost have started to hear her voice in my head sometimes—like, "It's okay to paint your nails on a Friday night while watching a movie. Take time to indulge." I think that that's been something that is funny because so many of us hold a double standard around these things. We would recognize it in any of our friends so fast—"Hey, you need to take care of yourself. You're worth it. You have value, and you're important, and if you don't take care of yourself, you won't be able to take care of your family." It's so easy to see with our friends, right?
Emily: Yes. Even in their really hard seasons where you see, "You are postpartum. You don't need to be—"
Laura: Rest.
Emily: "—running around the world. Take naps. Sleep all afternoon if you need to." Or even in a major life transition, we can be like, "You know what? You just moved six months ago. Of course, you don't feel settled. Of course, this is going to be hard. This is really normal." When our friend is grieving, we recognize, "Yes, you're not going to be on top of your to-do list, and you're not going to be able to make all those meals for your family that you want to make, and you are going to be a little bit off, and that's okay." We'll say, "Go to counseling, and take time to rest and repair, or make time to exercise."
We will give our friend all of that advice because we see that she's not trying to be indulgent. She's not trying to put the needs of her family off. Actually, she has value made in the image of God, and yet, we turn around in our own lives and we're like, "Uh-uh. I had a baby yesterday, and I should be back on top of everything today."
Laura: It's so true. I had a friend recently who texted me and she goes, "I hope you can take an emotional support weekend." It was funny because I had just come off this time where my dad had surgery. We had been sick. We had a funeral of a close family member. We had been traveling. We had a family reunion. There were so many things stacking up, and she just texted me. That's all she said: "I hope you can take an emotional support weekend." I was like, "You know what? I'm going to listen to this advice." I wasn't planning on it, but we ended up just vegging that weekend instead of catching up on the millions of things that I felt like we needed to.
I was like, "You know what? It has been a very exhausting four weeks." I was so thankful for that friend who just knew what I needed to hear in that moment.
Emily: I think that is good advice. This is something that my husband told me a long time ago. I use this little mental trick on myself a lot. He's told me, "Okay, essentially, when you are struggling to make a decision or figure out how to move forward, instead of thinking about how to fix your own problem, imagine that it’s your friend. Not a friend that you're like, 'I don't know; they make sketchy decisions.' Your friend that you're like, 'I know their heart. I know they love God. I know they're doing their best in this situation.' That friend has this problem—your problem. Then think about what advice you would give them in that situation."
A lot of times, I think that does help me look more objectively and pull myself out of it. It's suddenly easier to apply biblical wisdom to the situation. I think that's exactly what we're talking about. It's removing that double standard—recognizing that I have just as much value in the Lord as my friend does. I am just as much of an image bearer as my friend is. Christ wants that rest for my heart just as much as he wants that rest for my friend's heart. We've got to remove that double standard and recognize we want to be more compassionate and kind to ourselves. And not in a weird, cultural way but in the sense that sometimes God is more compassionate and kind to us than we are to ourselves.
Laura: Oh, my goodness. Yes. I feel like I have a hundred things I could say, but as we think through this series about wholeness, one of the things that we're zeroing in on are things that we lose when we become moms and that we have to take physical, tangible steps to take back. I think a big thing that a lot of moms lose is respect for ourselves and a reality of remembering that we have dignity and we are valuable. I think that we can easily lose sight that we are not just image bearers, but we are important image bearers—that we have value in the sight of God, that we have a mission, and that we are loved and created by God.
This can tend to look like what we're talking about here: "Okay, I'm not going to spend any time on my hair or my makeup or my clothes because I don't really have any value." We do an external, visual look at maybe how we feel in our souls. Maybe, though, you're put together on the outside, but you have a very hard time taking away any time for yourself—feeling like you don't deserve any time for yourself because you're not valuable. You're not worth it. You need to just work, work, work, work, work so that you can be valuable. Maybe it's just the self-talk that you have in your mind.
You see your failures, you see your inabilities—and motherhood is very good at showing us all how sinful and how not-enough we are. Those things start happening, I think, in young motherhood—perhaps for the first time in some of our lives. We start talking in this really horrible way about ourselves—a way that we would be appalled if our friends talked about themselves in that way.
Emily: Certainly, I think there is another side to this. I think that's why this topic is so hard. I honestly think it's part of why we stay in the pit of lies because we see the other extreme. As Christian women, we know that there is an error and an idolatry that can happen around beauty and fitness and self-care and health goals to the point where women and moms can lose sight of the main things.
They can maybe not sacrifice for their families in the way that they ought. They may not love others in the way that they ought. We just want to acknowledge that—that sometimes this idea that "Well, but I don't want to be a woman who is misplacing my priorities. Well, I don't want to be a mom who is selfish. I don't want to be a woman who is putting her needs ahead of everyone else's like the world says to do"—in an effort to not do that, we go all the way the other direction. Instead, we lose sight of God's path, which has very clear commands for our rest, for our valuing our own life, for our own believing truth and thinking on things that are good and true and beautiful and right.
It's like we have to recognize that God's way is not like a pendulum swing one side or the other.
Laura: I think that that's a good contrast, Emily. You're right. I think most of us tend to fall into the first ditch that we were talking about, where we struggle to see ourselves as worth any time or investment. I think it can come out in a lot of ways. You might be somebody who puts together your appearance, but the self-talk is terrible. You might be somebody who is saying, "Oh, I don't even deserve a shower." Yet maybe your inner monologue is not that bad. I don't know. I just think this can come out in a lot of ways. Yet, we want to talk about what to do when we feel this way because both Emily and I have gone through this.
I know for me, it's usually an inner monologue or how I talk about myself out loud. Feeling very much like a failure—feeling very much like I'm inadequate. Only seeing my sins—the whole idea as you progress in your Christian walk that you realize more and more how much of a sinner you are. That very much has happened to me, but sometimes it's hard because I don't see the grace equating—matching that. Yet, we know God's grace goes deeper still, but it can be hard for me because I just feel like more sin, more sin. I'm recognizing it, I'm recognizing it, and my inner monologue or my heart just can't seem to find God in all of it.
Emily: I almost think, for me, I have seen it in ways where I'm not willing to do really basic things that God created me to do, and I think, "Oh, I don't have to make time for that, or I shouldn't make time for that." I never forget—I started working with a nutritionist, and she's helping me eat a little bit healthier and all that stuff. That was hard to even get to that point where I was like, "Oh, this is worthwhile. This might help me feel a little bit better—deal with some health problems I was having." We had to get past the step of I could/should sit down and make time for my meal—for fifteen minutes—and chew my food.
I was just shocked that she had to say, "Basic eating 101: it's better for your body if you sit in a chair, and you're not multitasking, and you enjoy your food, and you chew your food. That actually affects your stomach enzymes and your digestion and all of these things." It was like, "Okay, yes, this is a basic thing that I'm—what is it that I believe about myself that I don't have enough time? I'm going to fail in life if I sit and eat my food and chew it and don't just inhale?" That's crazy talk.
I'm getting really vulnerable here, but I can feel that way about my physical appearance—if maybe my body composition isn't the way that I want it to be or that I think it should be. I'm like, "I'm just going to wear big baggy sweats today because I just feel—"
Laura: Hide it.
Emily: "—like I want to hide it because I think I don't have value unless I look a certain way and so I want to hide." And that can have all kinds of negative implications for my physical appearance because it's like—I don't know. How can I hide? How can I cover myself because I don't believe that I'm valuable and beautiful and made in the image of God today?
Laura: Oh, man, motherhood will do a number on the physical appearance too. I felt the same thing of just wanting to hide things that I don't like and avoid them because I think, "Oh, people won't like me as much,” or “I don't like myself, so how could they? Will they just be appalled or whatever?" I get that. We want to just pause for a hot second and we—
Emily: —We want to shower you with truth.
Laura: Yes, because we need it too. These are some things that God says about you. We want you to listen closely, and just know we've altered these a little bit for emphasis. Ephesians 2:10: "For you are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that you should walk in them."
Emily: "The Spirit of God has made you, and the breath of the Almighty gives you life." That's Job 33:4.
Laura: Psalm 139:14: "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful; I know that full well."
Emily: Luke 12—and I don't have the verses, but this is in there: "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God. Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows."
Laura: John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Emily: "You have been crucified with Christ, and it's no longer you who lives, but Christ who lives in you. And the life you now live in the flesh you live by faith in the Son of God, who loves you and gave himself for you." That's Galatians 2:20. I think we need to pause and take that in. Let that truth sink in and go—these are God's words about you. God doesn't hate you. God did not make you a throwaway person who needs to make themselves as small and invisible as possible. I think we absolutely see from these verses that God does not grumble around about what an incredible failure you are.
If you are in Christ, his wrath is not on you. He is not out to condemn you. Those things are not from him. And God is not up there like, "Oh I really made a mistake with this one; she's the worst"—or that he missed his shot with you or that your appearance isn't meeting up to his standards or whatever those things are. He loves you and he longs to be in close relationship with you, and that is true from God's Word. Those are the thoughts that should be running through your head.
Laura: I think the question becomes, then, “What would change in your life if you believed that?” If you believed, as Galatians says, that Christ lives in you—in your body—and that Christ is working in you and through you for his good pleasure—that your life matters—that your roles and responsibilities matter?
Those verses that we read aloud—and the things that Emily was saying there—are life-altering things that, if you can get it under your skin—and this is a battle that we all will face probably especially as women and mothers until we meet Jesus. But I think we can slowly get better at learning to believe these truths—that God sent his only Son to die for you. That the breath of the Almighty gives you life. That God made you. That you were fearfully and wonderfully made. That you're worth more than sparrows. That all your hairs on your head are counted and numbered.
Those are things that I think I—sometimes I imagine whenever I—not imagine. Sometimes, I will tell my children, "I love you. I love you so much. I love you so much. You can't even imagine," and I'm going on and on and on. I see them just glow under these words that I'm speaking that are so true. Every word that I utter, I'm just like, “All I want to do is have them know—"
You know how you sometimes see your kids and you're like, "I just want to squish you. I just want to squeeze you. I love you so much. You're so wonderful. You're so perfect"? They are under that, and they're basking in my love for them. That's what we should be doing. God loves us in that way—that we can sit underneath him, that we can just, “Eeeeh!”—just enjoy his love for us and his care for us.
If we believed that, if that got under our skin, I think that would change the way that we perhaps take care of our appearance—the way that we say, "Hey, I am worthy of a shower today. I'm worthy of maybe wearing a little bit nicer clothes sometimes, or at least changing into them after the kids are gone or down for a nap or whatever." Maybe it would change the way that we don't hide our bodies or the way that we choose to move our bodies and invest in our bodies, like you're talking about with your nutritionist or with exercise or things like that. So much could domino down if we believe these things.
Emily: Even just talking about internal monologue—what would it look like to not say hateful words to yourself? We're not scripturally allowed to say hateful things to people. Why do we do it to ourselves? What if we recognize that we are forgiven, and we go to the cross, and we keep going, and we trust that he's making us new and that we can pick up where we left off with no condemnation? And we really can walk free as a new creation? How would this change your personality? How would it change your mood? How would it change what you listened to and what you watched and who you're friends with and how you spend your time if you believe that God loved you?
Even accepting parts of who you are and how he made you, whether you're a little bit more extroverted or a little more introverted, or you're a little bit more serious or you're a little bit more intellectual. You're a little silly. Whatever all those things are— of course, there are sinful extremes we can go to in anything, but there's also a sense of acknowledging, "God made me this way. Oh, maybe there's a way I can serve him with that." It just totally turns the narrative on its head. We know that this is a really hard concept to wrap our heads around.
Like we said in the beginning, I think it's because, as Christian women, we can get judge and jury and argue the other side of why we don't deserve it and why there's danger in this and why we don't want to go too far with accepting ourselves. I just think we can quickly jump on the other side, but just pause that for a minute and really try to think about: what does it mean to give yourself the dignity that God wants you to have and, again, to extend to yourself the same grace that not only God extends to you but that you would expect and extend to your own friend?
Laura: Such good words. I think that there's a slow dismantling that you have to do in different areas of your life. I think something we've been repeating here is, "Hey, you may be like this, or you may be like that, or you may be like this, or you may be all the areas," but I think all of us are in different spots in our journey with how we view our own dignity and how we view our own self-care or things like that.
It may be that God has brought something to mind right now as you're listening to the show that you're like, "Oh, man, I really got to kick that habit—speaking negatively about myself.” Or “Yes, I really don't value my own appearance, and I want to hide my body because I don't like it anymore after having children." Whatever that is, don't feel like you have to tackle your whole self right away—because I think that's me. I'm always like, "Okay, I see the big picture. I see all the problems," and then I'm overwhelmed, and then I shut down, and then I just feel worse.
Think of the one thing that perhaps the Lord is bringing to mind now of like, "Look, I love you, and I think that you are worth doing this thing or not doing that thing anymore." This is really what sanctification is, folks. This is the slow plotting of faithful obedience on a long road, or what's that saying?
Emily: Yes. Close enough.
Laura: A long road of obedience in the same direction.
Emily: A long obedience in the same direction.
Laura: A long obedience in the same direction.
Emily: A long walk where you don't curve. [Laughter]
Laura: Yes, exactly. Don't get off the path. That's what this is. This is the path of the Christian to grow and change. There are so many areas that I know it can be very overwhelming to think, "I have so many things to fix and work on," but I think that God is kind. When we slow down and we really ask the Spirit, "Okay, what is that area where I am not honoring my own dignity that, God, you have already given me—you have already deemed is mine?" then he will bring one thing to mind. I love the thought of God answering prayer when we ask for things that are after his own heart—not "Oh, God, I want a boat," or "I want a summer vacation."
When we ask for things like, "Lord, help me see my own dignity," that answer is always a yes. It's a yes every single time. God's going to do that. He will honor that in this. Some of that just takes a continual preaching of the gospel to yourself.
Emily: Tangible things also might include finding a few verses. Maybe it's one of the ones that we shared today, and we will have all those listed in show notes if you're driving or walking and you couldn't write it down. Put that verse up on your mirror or have it as a lock screen on your phone or memorize that verse. Maybe you need to schedule a therapy appointment, or you need to meet with a mentor or a pastor or someone who can help you process through some of these things, and you realize, "Oh, I'm not going to be able to change some of this thinking myself." Maybe it's just as simple as confiding in a friend.
Laura: Confessing it.
Emily: Yes.
Laura: I think we hide it. I know that body image things or even negative self-talk—I don't really want to share that with people because I don't want them to know how ugly it is or that I actually struggle with those things. I'm an open book about a lot of things, but a lot of times, I'll just want to hide that. What is it? We've shared this on the show before—admitting something is bothering you or that you do something helps take 70% of the poison out of it.
Emily: Yes, it just brings it into the light. It like gives you relief.
Laura: Yes, there's a relief.
Emily: Instantaneously. Maybe you can journal about it. Or perhaps there is a tangible step that you can take, where it's like, "Hey, I want to start sitting down for my meals, or I do want to maybe put on a little bit of makeup." You don't have to, but that could be something that you want to do. Maybe you do want to invest a little bit more in your wardrobe, or you want to get your nails done, or you want to take a bath. There could be a ton of ways to respond to this, and those are all going to be very individual and personal.
I wanted to just end with a little—I don't know—story or image that I think is helpful to me. I don't know if you can think of fairy tales that are like this, Laura, but I think some of our favorite fairy tales as women are ones where the main character in the story—the woman—she's not dressed very nice, and she's dirty and lowly. She's wearing ugly clothes, and her hair is not brushed, but deep down, she's like a princess or something, or she's like an heir to something, or there is something very special and valuable around her, but she doesn't recognize it and no one else around her recognizes it. They just treat her as dirt.
Laura: Yes, but she's kind.
Emily: She's kind.
Laura: She also has a kind heart. She talks to mice and birds. Just kidding.
Emily: She's chosen for something. She has a special mission in the story, and it takes someone outside of her coming to rescue her and pull her out of that situation. Often, there's a point in the story where, behind closed doors, she transforms. She takes a bath, and they do her hair, and they give her new clean clothes and beautiful shoes, and they put jewels on her. She comes out as she really is, and everyone gasps at her beauty. I think we know from that story that the hero in that situation isn't the dress or the jewels or the bath. It's the fact that everyone is seeing her as she truly is—as she was meant to be portrayed.
She has dignity. They have pulled her from a situation where she had no dignity, and she is presented as something valuable and beautiful. I was just thinking about how much that mirrors our story as Christians. We are just like filthy rags, and we're rolling around in the pigsty and a hot mess, but we are image bearers of God. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. We are chosen. We have a valuable, important role in his kingdom. Then, we know that Christ frees us from that. He pulls us from that. We are washed white as snow and given garments of his righteousness. We are dressed in robes, and we are free from all of that. I just think—that is true of us. What would change if we thought of ourselves that way?
