Ep. 145 || Grandparents Weigh In: Cultivating Gracious Family Relationships Transcript
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Laura: Welcome to another episode of Risen Motherhood! Today we have a special show for you. Emily and I invited our parents on the show to talk about what it’s like for them as grandparents and to dive into what some of their goals are, how we manage conflict and communicate expectations for the kids; and they share encouragement for a mom who is longing for a better relationship with her own parents or in-laws. This would be a great episode to share with your parents or in-laws, as our parents sometimes speak directly to others in their same season of life.
Okay, let’s get to the show where you’ll meet my parents, Dean and Dianne Jensen, and Emily’s parents, Henry and Gayla Grayum. Laura: Welcome to another episode of Risen Motherhood! This is a really special show. As always, I have my sister-in-law, Emily here with me.
Emily: Hey, guys!
Laura: And guys, I’m looking around at my own parents and Emily’s parents.
Emily: Yes, my in-laws. Just to be clear. [Laughter]
Laura: Yes, that’s right! Emily and I are sisters-in-law; so it’s my parents, who are her in-laws, and then her parents: Dean and Dianne, and Henry and Gayla. You heard us introduce them just a couple of minutes ago. We’re going to be talking about the very important topic of grandparents and relationships with their daughters-in-law. We’re going to start off with brief introductions of who you are, and then we’ll kick off the show!
Dean Jensen: Well, I’m the father of Laura and the father-in-law of Emily. Our three children are all married, and were all married inside the same year. [Laughter]
Laura: 364 days! Mike and I just barely made it in there.
Dianne Jensen: It was a fun year. A very fun year.
Dean Jensen: But we’ve unconditionally adopted each of the spouses into our family, so we don’t have any distinctions between the six of them. Over the last 25 years or so, I’ve worked in the real estate industry; most recently, I’ve specialized in adaptive reuse projects. My background is in sculpture; buildings just serve as sculptural pieces. It’s been a fun journey.
My favorite thing to do with the grandchildren is to participate in their teaching opportunities—things like art projects, playing baseball, Bible stories. I love to see them develop, grow, and achieve in those areas that seem like a small thing at the time, but turns out to be a large building block in the future.
Emily: We love that. Papa is so good about taking them to golf, or do art projects, or do the things that require a lot of patience and planning—the meticulous stuff. We’re really grateful for that.
Laura: Okay, mama?
Dianne Jensen: Well, I’m Dianne, and we’re Laura’s parents. Emily’s married to our son, Brad. One of my favorite sayings is, “I’ve retired and gone to Grandma heaven.” [Laughter]
Emily: You make it look like heaven. [Laughter]
Dianne Jensen: I love heaven. [Laughter] Some of my favorite things to do with our grandkids are to scare them when they first come into the schoolhouse—
Laura: [Laughter] Oh, I know. They get petrified.
Dianne Jensen: They do! But they look forward to it. We do several things with them that we enjoy doing: board games, watching DVDs with popcorn and m&m’s, having cousin camp—that’s a big deal with the grandkids. They know when they spend the night, on Saturday it’s “hot chocolate and conversation” time. It’s not deep conversation, but it’s something I hope they’ll be able to use to ask us questions about life without any filters. We want to develop that trust with them, and drink hot chocolate with lots of marshmallows.
Laura: They love that. They talk about it all the time.
Emily: Yep. Okay, what about you, dad?
Henry Grayum: I’m Henry, and I’m proud to be Emily’s father. I’ll let you guess how many years that has been. [Laughter] I know Laura from some of our inter-family birthday parties and holiday events, so that’s been a great thing. I’m retired from full-time work, so I spend a lot of time—by my choice—with my grandchildren. One of the things I like to do is to take them out into the community to do real-life things, like everyday life skills, to let them experience as much as they can. I think it’s important for them to know how to operate in the real world. I also like to take them on trips and introduce them to new things. It’s very exciting for them, and I love to feed on their excitement in a kind of selfish way.
Emily: I remember one time he took them on a little bus system we have in our town, and they got to the end of the town and said, “There’s nothing there! There’s only corn! We got to the end of the town!” [Laughter]
Laura: It sounds like the Truman show or something. [Laughter]
Emily: Yes! So they like going on those outings with Grandpa. We’re really grateful for that. All right, mom?
Gayla Grayum: I’m Emily’s mom, Gayla. I’m semi-retired from my career, so I work part-time outside of the home, but have a very flexible job that allows me to take time off and be a grandma. Sometimes I come over in the mornings to help before work or take a full day off if I’m needed to babysit. I’m kind of a support role during the week and weekends. One of my favorite things to do with the kids is to cook and bake. I’m the person that will do Easter eggs, gingerbread houses, or cookie decorating. We also make banana bread; I’m famous with them for that. [Laughter] They love anything they can mix and measure, or make a mess with. We have a lot of fun cooking together.
Laura: Anytime I hear you’re bringing dessert, I’m like, “I will be there! Gayla’s bringing dessert!” [Laughter]
Emily: Another thing I’m so grateful for: a grandparent with patience who wants to do a gingerbread house or Easter egg. That’s so great.
Laura: Okay guys, we’re excited for our listeners to hear a bit more about what makes you tick as grandparents and why our relationships work—even though they’re not perfect. We want to make it clear: our relationships aren’t without conflict. But can you share what posture you take as grandparents? What’s your goal when grandparenting and why do you have that perspective?
Dean Jensen: Well first of all, it’s an honor and privilege to be blessed with grandchildren. That’s the first point. And the added blessing is to be nearby to them geographically, so you can see them more than just occasionally. Finally, it’s important—at least for our family—that we’re in right relationship with you guys as we share in the training and growth of the kids. For me, it’s important to impart and entrust grandchildren with as much life prep as we can, so that’s an important ingredient in the day-to-day.
Dianne Jensen: Mine is pretty simple: love on those grandkids. Be with them, be present with them.
Henry Grayum: One of my roles I pride myself on is being the Disrupter-in-Chief.
Emily: Ha-ha-ha. [Laughter]
Henry Grayum: I enjoy taking those kids from being quiet and well-mannered to being wild and unruly in about ten seconds.
Laura: Oh, a mom’s favorite thing! I’m sure that’s Emily’s favorite thing! [Laughter]
Gayla Grayum: He does it without sugar. [Laughter]
Henry Grayum: I have the privilege and joy of spending a lot of time with my grandkids, and I think you can see what’s important in someone’s life by how they spend their time. I want them to feel like they’re important to me, so I spend a lot of time with them. Ultimately, I think my role as a grandparent is to be whatever link in the chain that there is that leads them to Christ. I don’t know what that role is, but I try to consistently show them that love and educate them about God’s love. Hopefully at some point that will pay off for them.
Gayla Grayum: Yes, I think even though a lot of us say we’re retired, we’re not really. We still need to live the gospel in our everyday lives and mentor our grandchildren. I think we have a spiritual heritage we need to pass on to them. I think we’re called to support, encourage, and love our grandchildren sacrificially, as Christ has done for us. It keeps us busy. [Laughter]
Dianne Jensen: Yes it does. [Laughter]
Emily: We’re really grateful. It takes such a village; it’s really helpful for us to say we’re sending them to grandparents’ houses and know that they’ll be encountering someone who loves the Lord there too. It’ll look different than the way we talk about it and different things will be emphasized, so we’re really encouraged and hopeful about that picture over time.
Dean Jensen: I might inject, Emily. One of the life verses we have as grandparents is Psalm 100:5. It has some motivating parts to it that talk about passing on God’s good; his love is steadfast and he’s faithful to all generations. That’s been a driving force for us to live by.
Laura: That’s really good. So, you might have a disagreement with Emily or myself when we have different opinions on how to do things; how do you approach that situation with grace? What influences your response?
Gayla Grayum: I didn’t know we had different opinions. [Group erupts in laughter.]
Laura: That’s why you’re on the show! It’s perfect!
Gayla Grayum: I’d start by saying I have great respect for Emily and Brad as individuals and as a united team working together. I think it’s most important that we’re operating on the same biblical principles, so all walking on the same path helps a lot. I think about Ephesians 4 where we’re called to live a life that reflects the grace given to us. We should be walking together, seeking unity; being kind, gentle, and humble. Opinions, in the end, don’t really matter. I think it’s the character and heart we have for others in the Kingdom of God that last. I think it’s good to have different perspectives, opinions, and mindsets when seeking the truth. As far as parenting, I love that I’m the grandparent this time and I’m not making the rules. [Laughter] I try to honor and respect the parenting desires of our kids, and do as much as I can to the best of my availability. If I do have an opinion, I think we have a good, open communication. I’m not afraid to express, in a humble way, my concern.
Dianne Jensen: Exactly. I think you girls are very easy to talk to. I think we’re guided by Ephesians also, which talks about speaking the truth in love. That helps a lot, because you don’t have to take things personally. Even if it’s a little awkward, it’s worth working through that conversation in order to get through that problem. And you both love the grandchildren, so we’re looking beyond the problem to what’s best for the grandkids. Like Gayla said, we’re pretty much in agreement with everything in terms of raising the kids and supporting you guys. That’s the big thing: supporting you guys.
Laura: That’s something Emily and I have shared on the show many times: being on the same side of the table and facing the problem together. We’ve talked about it particularly in marriage, but I think that’s something really helpful in the in-law/daughter relationship. Like you said, mom, we all love the children so much, even equally. Sometimes it feels like, “No, I love the kids more!” “No, I love the kids more!” [Laughter] There’s that element that we desire the same things for these kids—to see them love the gospel, to flourish, to grow up in the Lord—and it does look really different from different perspectives. We’re in different stages of life and have different relationships with them, but I’ve always been grateful that the grandparents have always respected our position as parents. They acquiesce, even if they don’t fully understand. You’ve said, “We respect you as mom and dad, so we’ll try our best to go by what you desire,” even if you still feed them too much ice cream… [Laughter]
Dianne Jensen: That was an accident!
Laura: That’s the tension of the relationship. I have to say some things are okay when they’re at grandma and grandpa’s—like chewing too much gum or whatever—as I recognize what really matters. You have really respected me when I’ve said, “No, this is really important.” I think it’s because we truly choose our battles. I don’t get upset over everything, because I know we’re all walking towards what’s really meaningful and what’s most important. We try not to get caught up in the little things.
Emily: So, to build on that, we’ve talked about your posture towards grandparenting and towards us. What has been the most helpful way we’ve communicated with you and you’ve felt honored and respected? I know we have a lot of listeners saying, “I wish my parents or in-laws were on the same page as me. I wish they were like-hearted. I don’t know if they are, and I need to communicate hard things to them. I don’t know how to do that.” Could you speak to how our communication—or how you’d prefer we communicated—honors and respects you?
Henry Grayum: Some of you may know from listening to the podcast, we live in very close proximity to Emily and her family. In fact, we share a driveway, a side yard, and if we wanted to, could probably see in each other’s windows. Which, Emily, we don’t do that. [Laughter] I think our communication style would probably be the same even if we were across the continent. We have a pretty broad openness between us; a lot of sharing of the little things and the big things. I think we consistently share what’s going on in our lives, and what are plans are and where we’re going. We have a lot of information flowing between us, so there aren’t many surprises; I think that helps us.
Emily: So you’re saying ongoing communication about a variety of things helps when those grandparent/child conversations come up?
Henry Grayum: Correct. This is just my experience, but I’ve found in long-distance relationships it can be difficult when you get together and someone asks, “So, what’s been going on in your life?” I don’t know where to begin. Life is made up of so many tiny moments. If you try to think of just the big ones, there aren’t that many big moments. So, yes, the ongoing of a variety things is great for us.
Emily: For building relationships, yes.
Dean Jensen: In Psalm 139, it talks about how God forms us. For me, that’s been a great way for me to view communication. God shaped each one of us individually and independently. It’s cool to observe that and realize there are differences, but those differences create a nice balance. Being from a creative background, I’ve always liked to have critiques as long as the goal is the same for each person in those: working to improvement. Then I think communication is fun and easy. You get to respect each other, and it works.
Dianne Jensen: I’d like to add one other thing; you let us know how to encourage one of the grandkids. It helped me a lot when you’d talk to me about our two grandchildren with special needs. I didn’t know how to act or what was the best way to help them in situations. Being open with me and helping me learn has been meaningful for me.
Laura: I think a piece of it is believing the best in one another. I think that’s something you [dad] and mom have shown me: to assume good, pure motives. People communicate in different styles, and sometimes we don’t want to listen unless it’s in our preferred style. But we can extend grace to one another by believing the best intentions in each other—even if we misspeak about something or aren’t politically correct about something. I want to receive what’s been said and respond in a gracious way, knowing we’re on the same side of the table and fighting for the same thing. Assuming they’re coming from a good place is a helpful place to start.
Emily: I think we’ve mentioned this on a show in the past, but another thought is to exploit the strengths of other people. I hope you’ve felt honored when we see grandma is really good at baking, so we want to invite that into our kids’ lives as much as possible. I think that can help you to receive a conversation when, for whatever reason, we need to draw a line. You’re able to see that we’re on the same team and we welcome you into different things.
Laura: Do you have any encouragement or advice to a mom who is discouraged? We know not everyone has relationships like this with their in-laws or parents. How can you encourage them with the gospel?
Dianne Jensen: Well, I would say it would be really tough if you didn’t have a great relationship or even a good relationship. I always say that if you’re interested in pursuing them in maturity, be the one to take steps to give that relationship the opportunity to blossom. You have to see the bigger picture. Even if that person is hard to love, you still have agape love, so you’re able to communicate with them and have the courage to take the initiative to find ways to talk to the grandparents about the kids—like with FaceTime. I like FaceTime. Have the kids write a note or something. Make an effort to include them in your family activities. I know there are relationships where it’s hard to connect with grandparents, for whatever reason. Maybe they’re far away or not as interested as you want them to be. That’s hard. I feel for young families that have to go through something like that. You can’t force that relationship. I think something that’s helped me with disappointments or burdens is remembering I Peter 5:7, casting all your cares upon him for he cares for you. Give the Lord that burden; he has the shoulders big enough to carry that disappointment. You don’t have to carry it. In the meantime, let it rest with Jesus and do what you can in that relationship.
Laura: That’s really meaningful to hear, mom. We’ve had different relationships with my own grandparents, and I think that relationship has been hard—especially for you guys with your parents and how they interacted with us kids. I know what you’re saying is coming from a really authentic place of being there. You can identify with that mom who feels discouraged because the relationship doesn’t look like what she wanted. I appreciate you being vulnerable to share that; I want listeners to know she’s saying that because she understands.
Henry Grayum: Something to add: do be hopeful because situations can and do change. Even though it’s really bleak now, it may get better in the future. Secondly, I think sometimes we have this presumption that people who are older than us know how to do things. Don’t assume your parents know how to be grandparents—especially if this is their first round of grandkids. They may be struggling themselves, wondering, “What should I say? What shouldn’t I?” Give them some room; maybe they’re struggling too. Thirdly, just say something to them. Do it in an appropriate manner and in an appropriate setting. Don’t let the clock keep ticking. If there’s some issue you need to address, get it out in the open so people can address it.
Gayla Grayum: God may be using your situation as a way for your family to model the love of Christ to them. Only the Holy Spirit can change their hearts, but maybe they’ll see glimpses of Jesus through you and what your family is doing. Never give up; situations can change.
Dean Jensen: Looking at the grandparents’ real soul needs and being authentic to inquire about, “What do you dream about? What do you fear? What kinds of things do you want as a person?” and entering into that with your parents or in-laws is a tough navigation. But when you can get to that deep soul topic, solutions happen and bonding occurs. It creates a foundation for renewed relationship.
Laura: I think that’s a key point. As the mom of the grandkids, I can get really self-focused. “What do I need? What do the kids need?” I forget the needs of the grandparents. I think, “How can we all work together for the kids? How can grandma have time to babysit my kids, or influence them, or teach them piano?” [Laughter] I think that’s an encouragement to all the moms that it’s really important to take an interest in the grandparents. They’re still people; they’re not just grandma, grandpa, nana, or whatever. We see our own children and how self-centered they can be, but we’re still that way and I’m 32. [Laughter] That’s a good encouragement for me to remember to ask you about how your lives are and what you’re interested in. Like you said dad, what’s going on deep in your souls and what are your cares? That would help relationships too.
Emily: It kind of summarizes that conversation of our parents and in-laws also being our neighbors. We love our neighbors, or your literal neighbors if they’re your actual neighbors… [Laughter] I think you’re right, Laura. We’re in a very busy season of life but taking time to foster that relationship, loving them as people and maybe even as friends, can change things out of a love for Christ.
Thank you all for joining us today, parents! It’s been a joy. This is a really special treat. We made sure to intimidate them by bringing them into a professional recording studio. [Laughter]
Laura: We’re in a legit room. We’ll show you on Instagram. [Laughter]
Emily: We think they did wonderfully! We kind of put them on the spot.
Laura: It was their first time ever on the show! Isn’t it cute how they kept calling it a broadcast? [Laughter]
Emily: Oh yeah. That was cute. So, we have some other shows and resources—even a chapter in the Risen Motherhood book about relationships—
Laura: We talk about cousin camp too.
Dianne Jensen: Oh good!
Emily: We talk about how it’s getting shorter every year… [Laughter]
Laura: Mysteriously shorter! [Laughter]
Emily: We want to thank you guys again. For any of you out there who want to find more resources, you can head to risenmotherhood.com. You can also find us on social media @risenmotherhood on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Thanks for joining us!
Laura: Thanks, guys!