Gospel Mom 04: On Competitive Motherhood + Other Things (GM - C7) Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Emily Jensen: I feel like, over the years, we've developed some crutch words at Risen Motherhood.
Laura Wifler: Oopsies.
Emily: One of them is “excited.”
Laura: Yes, for sure.
Emily: We've tried to ban ourselves from saying the word, “We're excited.”
Laura: I'm excited about saying the word excited.
Emily: Another one is talking about how unique things are. We're all different, so buckle up because we're allowed to use our crutch term today.
Laura: We're going to say it a whole bunch.
Emily: Because the foundational principle for gospel motherhood that we want to talk about on this show is how important it is to really understand the unique life and motherhood that God gave you. We were thinking about this in terms of a Venn diagram—back to elementary school.
Laura: Yes, this is such a helpful example, I think, because if you meet with a different mom—whether that's a mom down the street or that's a mom who's on the other side of the world—you're going to find some things where you overlap on and are similar. You're all going to understand what it's like to not have sleep because of a newborn baby. You're all going to be able to relate to that. You're all probably going to—every mom in the world is going to resonate with feelings of guilt. We're all going to get it. But then you have this other side of the Venn diagram—the outside portions of those circles—where it's just completely different, right? Things—even if it's your neighbor who is the very same demographic as you, there's going to be different things and different unique circumstances that you're both experiencing. I think that this is something that's really helpful to keep in mind, especially because there is a lot of focus out there within Christian ministries and within influencers—and this is a good thing—where they call us to see what we have in common. But Emily and I are here to also say, “Also please notice what you have different.” [Laughter]
Emily: We need both of those things. I think that it's interesting because, as women, I think we are uncomfortable with being different from one another. There's actually quite a bit of research coming out about how women overall tend to care more about cooperation and being in a group. Social conformity is highly valued. Then there's this fear of differences or nonconformity, which leads to feeling excluded from a group. That's very, very prevalent among women. I don't think they would say—research would show men are not that way.
Men are more individualistic. If they're in a group of men, they'll just say their opinion. They're not really that worried about getting thrown out of the group. It's interesting to get deep into this because some people theorize that women tend to feel the need of protection in groups versus men. Just physically, they feel like they need the protection of—I don't know—not being thrown out of the tribe.
Laura: Is this like what evolutionists say?
Emily: I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I have no good studies to cite.
Laura: No, I love it. Psychologically though, you're saying—
Emily: Yes, it's psychological.
Laura: There's a lot of stuff in evolutionary theories that I'm like, “Actually, that makes sense with the Bible.”
Emily: It's like biological. I think you think back to middle school, where as girls—girls are going to call each other before school and be like, “We're both wearing this color shirt today,” and there is so much pressure to dress a certain way or like certain things. If you're not in the group, it's that “you're in, you’re out” mentality. There can be bullying that happens and things like that. I just think it's interesting because we don't realize it sometimes, but that middle school culture can carry into motherhood culture, where it can feel like we want—especially when we get together with a friend or we really like someone—we want to be like each other. Then when we have things that are different, we're uncomfortable with that, or we're worried, “Does that mean someone's doing something wrong?” All those things.
Laura: It feels threatening one direction or another. This is so true. I think that when we realized how important it is to become more comfortable with differences, it was a real light bulb moment for us at Risen Motherhood. We felt like it was something that was somewhat missing in that wider Christian conversation, especially with moms. Because this is really how the mommy war started—that people were focusing in on what the differences are: “I'm right. You're wrong.” If anything, it's like—we can be different from one another and live at peace. That's what the gospel calls us to.
When we think about unique circumstances, this is why—I think for Emily and myself—we have really tried not to personally endorse or overemphasize different parenting methods or to get super nitty-gritty practical, even we know to some of your guys' disappointment. But in our opinion, we look out and we see—man, there are just so many reasons why moms might make different decisions or use different types of discernment when they're leading their own family.
It's all about resisting that middle school girl urge to be accepted and to be included or to consider being the same as being liked or being loved. I think that's what we often get caught up with instead of just trusting, hey, this is where God has us and being comfortable with the differences among us.
Emily: In the book, we go through a lot of different categories about what types of things might make your situation unique. Actually, we have a lot of fun stuff in the workbook as well. There's a little plug there, but we wanted to go through some of these today for those of you who are just listening and following along on our podcast series. One of the things that makes your motherhood unique is just who you are personally. This includes things like your family history, of your family of origin. What was your relationship with your mom and dad? When did you become a believer? Do you have certain temptations and sin struggles? What's your mental health history? What's your current mental health? What's your physical health?
There are all these things about you that just mean you are bringing to the table of motherhood a unique experience and background that is different from another mom. Again, we're not trying to say like, “Right. Wrong. I wish this would have happened; I wish that wouldn't have happened. She grew up in a Christian home; I didn't.” We can get into all these weird comparison games, but the reality is it just is what it is, and this is what I'm coming into motherhood as, and I want to be aware of that.
Laura: Another few things to be aware of. Your spouse, if you have one, is a major player in your unique circumstances. You don't make decisions in a silo—at least we hope you don't, if you are married. That you're really considering that person's needs, their desires, their wishes, and all that stuff that Emily just mentioned about who you are plays into who they are.
Emily: Your husband's got his whole situation.
Laura: That matters to your unique circumstances—his family of origin and where he grew up and what his beliefs are and whether or not his parents—where they were politically and things like that. That plays into who you guys are as a family unit today. It's something to really consider and to think through, as you start to form and make decisions in motherhood.
Emily: I love that reminder: we each are just honoring our own husbands, right? We have to just remember that everyone is also trying to not only deal with their own stuff, but they're trying to come together with their husband and make a decision there.
Another thing is your family makeup. This is: what ages of kids do you have? How many kids do you have? What is their spacing? What is their gender? Do any of them have any neurological differences or special needs or disabilities? Your family is going to need different things or look differently.
If one family has two girls and they're spaced four years apart, and another family has six boys and two of them have special needs and they're all really close together, we sometimes want to be like, “Oh, they're all kids,” but actually, if you were to go into those two houses and the types of demands on people's times and the noise level and the activity level and all the things, those would be different. Those moms would be coming to their motherhood every morning to meet different types of challenges.
Laura: Another one is where you live. If you live in the suburbs—do you live in the city? Do you live in an apartment? Do you live in a big, sprawling mansion? I don't know, but all of those things really matter. What's your demographic? The culture that you're in. How diverse is it in your city or town? Do you live in small-town Iowa or do you live in New York City? Those are very big changes for maybe things like how you do church or what schools you pick. Those kinds of things really impact—
Emily: What kind of issues feel most pressing to you?
Laura: Exactly. There are so many applications for recognizing, “Oh, this is the microculture that I'm in, and here's how it plays out. Here's how I'm seeing that shape that.” I care—especially on social media, this is where I just wish so many moms would recognize like, “Oh, that mom is in a totally different microculture than you.” In America—America's huge. Especially for the moms that are here in the US, America is like lots of little different countries, and we just forget about that and think, “Whatever that mom on the East Coast is doing, that's what the West Coast mom should do.” It's like, no, there's probably a pretty big difference in certain areas.
I think just really remembering where you live is important. What's another one, Em?
Emily: I think season of life, too. There are some decisions that are harder or easier when you have all babies versus when you've got elementary schoolers versus when you've got high schoolers or college students. Every stage of motherhood that you're in is going to maybe mean different things for your work. It's going to maybe mean different things for your spiritual disciplines and habits. It might mean different things for kids' activities. There are just so many implications, and I think as we recognize what season we're in right now, that also helps us make decisions and consider the motherhood that God has given us right now.
Laura: Lastly—actually, not lastly. There's a lot more.
Emily: I have way more to talk about.
Laura: The things you care about. I think this one's been really helpful for me as I have found areas of life that I feel really passionate about, like disability and being outspoken about that and outspoken about the Imago Dei—just recognizing that can't be everyone's passion area. Often, I think when we have something that we really care about, whether that's adoption or it's miscarriage or it's something you probably experienced—it's something you went through—then you start to pick up that mantle and educate and help people know. You're passionate about it and rightfully so because God has given you a life experience that—that's why he gives us—one of the reasons why he gives us trials, right, is so that we can be an encouragement and comfort to others when they're going through that.
But what can come along with that, if we're not recognizing this unique circumstance thing, is that we get frustrated when other people are not as passionate as we are about something. We start to feel either judgmental that maybe they're wasting their life or their time or they're not giving their money to the right places. Or we start to feel prideful about feeling like ours is superior and not realizing that like, oh, there are probably other things that family cares about because they have had a personal experience or someone that they love has had this happen to them.
I think when we start to think about the things that we care about—maybe you're very politically active or maybe you're on the cutting edge of certain different scientific discoveries or whatever—allowing that diversity and trusting what God has given you and that you get to be passionate about that. That's your job. Your job isn't to make sure that other people care about it as much as you. You're just called to spread the message.
Emily: I think what the recognition of these circumstances do is they remind us that we have limits—that we are, again, made with a physical body with two feet on the real ground that we're standing on right now in a specific time and a specific place that God wanted us to be in with the family makeup that he's given us. We have a unique mission to fulfill and a unique calling in the kingdom right where we're at. Every single one of those matters. I think it also helps us stay rooted.
With social media, I just think we can get so distorted, and suddenly like—and we do this on Risen Motherhood, right—where our mission field grows so big. And we just forget that we are physically tethered to a place that God wants us to care about. Really, when you start to dive into your unique circumstances, you can be grateful for what is—what God actually gave you—and stop living in this what-if: “What if I had this? Maybe I should have that. Maybe I should have that.” We keep using the word “freeing.” There's another crutch word, but it’s freeing to know like, “Okay, no, this is it. This is what God gave me, and so now I'm going to figure out how to apply biblical wisdom here.”
Laura: Em, what is your favorite part of this chapter?
Emily: I had a quote that I pulled out, and it says, "We can acknowledge our hopes and desires for the way we thought things would be but evaluate and accept the life that God has actually given us—the place we actually live, the family we actually have. We don't live in the what-ifs; we live our motherhood in the what-is." I feel like that what-is is something that I have to remember all the time whenever I see moms around me doing things that are different. Particularly, I think I feel this in the context of having a child with a disability. It really changes the things that we need to do for childcare, for family activities, for vacations. There are so many ripple effects in what our family sort of like can and can't do wisely.
Sometimes, I can really struggle with feeling like we're failing our kids or we're not giving our family the life that we want to give them or that we feel like we should give them because of this situation. I have to really reorient and go, “No, God, you gave me this, and it's hard, and there's all those things to grapple with, but also, there's a lot of freedom and joy to be had here. I don't have to answer to anybody else about how we're living with the life that you gave us and the child that you gave us.” I don't know—it's just really hard to not look and compare.
Laura: Yes, I think especially in any grief, we're looking over our shoulder, and it can be very easy for jealousy to sneak in. I think that, like you, it's a battle for me for sure as well. I think, to even build on that, is just looking at different seasons. I was talking to a mom the other day, and she was talking about how she can't do exercise and can't fit it in. She has a little baby at home. She was talking about me and what I do. I'm like, "But I'm in a totally different season. I'm literally six years ahead of you. You cannot compare my life to your life. You're going to get there in time."
I think sometimes we put pressure on ourselves, and we see what other moms have. This is the same thing that you're saying, but even just in the sense of—that might be possible for that mom, but she's wishing away the present in order to get to the future of where she probably will be. I'm like—I just wish I could take away that angst and anxiety that she feels because it's so unnecessary; because it's so obvious to me on the other side. In the moment, I probably felt the same way, but I was like, "Oh, please don't look at my life as a pattern for yours." I like how we did talk about that. We're not living in the what-ifs; we have to live in the what-is. And I think when we get there, there's a lot of contentment.
I always think of that Amy Carmichael quote: "In acceptance lieth peace." Just that idea of like, “Okay, Lord, I receive what you have for me.” It's maybe not what I would choose, or I maybe feel antsy to move to another season, but when we can learn to accept and acknowledge, “This is the life I've been given, and I can be grateful for what it is,” then that's where we ultimately find peace in our lives.
Emily: So good.
Laura: What's something you've learned since writing or are thinking about right now related to this topic?
Emily: I feel like I'm just building on what I've already said over and over again, but I think I'm just learning how hard it can be to break a mold or an expectation that other people have of you and your family. I think this can vary—whether it's not getting a smartphone at a certain time, and other families are doing it, and you're not doing it. Or it's like, hey, we need to get extra help at home, or we're not participating in travel sports right now or whatever those things are. I think I can really grapple with fear of losing reputation or losing relationships or not being seen by others as a good mom because I'm not giving them all the right things or I'm not giving them all the culturally expected things. That is just where the rubber meets the road on this gospel motherhood stuff.
I think that those things are hard. It's even hard to explain to your kids too, when they see their friends doing things and you're like, “Actually, Dad and I have talked, and we've prayed about this, and we feel like this is the right thing for our family. It's not exactly what your friends are doing.” Really working through them to disciple our kids in what it means that we each have to make these decisions before the Lord, and they're going to be different from each other, and that's hard and uncomfortable sometimes. It does sometimes mean that people are going to talk about you or they're going to judge you. That's where we have to really have our identity in Christ. Boy, I have just come up against that a lot recently.
Laura: I think sometimes I can wrap my mind around decisions our family is making right now. But what happens is I get this weird anticipatory fear that someday my kids will resent me for this and that maybe they seem fine now, but maybe my mind's going to change. We both know—you and I—like we've said this before: we're going to do things wrong. As much as we're trying to do things right, and you feel like you're making the best decision you can at the time, we're going to look back and we're going to say, “Okay, that was maybe a miss there,” or “I wish I would have done something differently at that point.” If I bury myself in that, I can get really paralyzed very quickly. I can't let myself go there.
There have been times where I admit that I have and felt like, “Oh no, what's the future going to hold? Will my kids resent me for that? I'm not setting them up for success to be a thriving adult.” It's all ill-founded. It's all conjured up in my mind. I think that that's just something that I've been thinking about a lot lately is just the trust that's required in the Lord to be sovereign and good to your family. Knowing that like, okay, I'm going to do the best I can, I'm going to mess up, but I trust that God is bigger than my mistakes. I don't know, that's just something I'm working through right now. Sorry. It's heavy, guys.
Emily: Big stuff.
Laura: Another question: where do you think moms are most likely to fall in error here or to struggle?
Emily: I feel like the ditch for believers—and we already talked about the ditch at the beginning of the show which is not noticing differences at all. But the other one is this idea of self-actualization—like “I am so independent, and I am so unique” that we're not willing to then get input from others. We sort of pride ourselves on being a contrarian and on questioning everything. If it's common knowledge and everyone believes it, then I definitely should question it and not believe it. Just getting into this cycle of focusing on our uniqueness as like, oh, there is this—I don't know. We can get weird about it, that's all.
Laura: For sure. Super weird. I also think the other easy ditch to fall into is just—I guess we did talk about it this morning, but saying that “Okay, everyone should live just like me.” There are some people who are like, “I'm different from everybody, and that's right.” There are other people who are like—
Emily: “I got it right.”
Laura: —"I'm different, so everyone should be just like me.” [Laughter] It's like, oh, neither one is quite right. I think that that is the easier ditch to fall into. It's just like when there's—the other day, I started drinking this new drink that's like a little pop that's healthy or whatever. I shared it on Instagram, and this wasn't my intent, but it could be that it's like, “Oh, everyone needs to drink this because it's good for you.” That is a little bit like why I'm sharing it. We're naturally programmed to share good things—things that are working for us. If you've been helped or healed or fixed or look good by something, you want to tell people. That's how God made us—that's why the good news of the gospel is contagious. So I want to share it, but it can fall into this error of like, “If you don't do this, you are silly.”
Emily: Yes, what kind of a person are you?
Laura: Yes, you are ridiculous. I think we‘ve got to be cautious about both directions.
Emily: All right. If a mom wanted to do one or two things right now to help her grow and understand unique circumstances, what are some ideas?
Laura: We provide this for you in the Gospel Mom workbook, Becoming a Gospel Mom. If you don't have that, we just recommend making a mind map. Hopefully, you guys remember those from—it's like elementary, right?
Emily: Like a circle in the middle of the page with you as a stick figure and write “me.”
Laura: Laura Wifler, Emily Jensen—write your name. Then you have all these little lines coming out with things like your spouse—all the things we listed earlier: where you live, what you're passionate about, things like that. Just write some of those things down and keep it nearby, pray about it, see what God might show you about what it means for how to live well in the motherhood that God has given you and to help see blind spots or areas of pride—areas of judgment. Just form all those things. I think what I loved about what we did in the book was that we had moms really work through—it's sort of like a personality test or some sort of fun self-assessment, but then it's not so fun anymore because we have you work through areas of things that you feel like are wrong in motherhood and think about like, “Okay, is it biblical? Is this a universal truth that this is wrong in motherhood, or is that just something that is my conscience—more something that I personally don't feel like is right?” Those are really tricky.
We're going to talk about that on the next show a little bit more, but you can do a version of that at home, and God will be faithful to reveal things to you as you seek him.
Emily: I think another thing is set a calendar entry or a time to have an intentional discussion with your husband about your collective, unique desires and goals for your children, for your family, within the bounds of God's commands. I think sometimes, we're so busy talking about the really immediate things with our spouse like “Who has to get to practice and what are we doing for dinner? Can you find that shoe?” or whatever, that we forget to talk about the bigger things and the directional things and go, “Oh, actually, there's something we really desire as a family, and we would need to make some shifts in our life in order to reach some of those goals.”
I feel like it's important to have both of those types of conversations and to not wait until something is heated or falling apart to be like, “Well, we've never even really talked about this,” and suddenly people are very emotional. It's nice—like you're going on a long car ride. Take everybody out for a walk, stay up a little bit after bedtime, and just take time to even talk through your unique circumstances and what kind of things you want as a couple.
Laura: In all of this, take-home lesson is remember that differences are great. They are awesome. They are good things; they're not to be afraid of. We really believe that God is going to work in those differences. That is how his mission is accomplished throughout the world—that we each are living in our own lives. We're flourishing. We're living the way that he has called us and built us. Today, we hope that you could just feel encouraged that the things that maybe sometimes you feel odd about or different about or lonely on are actually potentially gifts and great ways that God can use you.
