Moms + Work 05: Listening to God's Leading in Work—An Interview with Portia Collins Transcript
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Emily Jensen: Let's transition because we have our second interview in this Moms + Work series with our friend, Portia Collins. She is a Christian Bible teacher and writer/blogger, who enjoys studying and teaching Scripture. Portia is the founder of She Shall Be Called, a women's ministry centered on helping women understand and embrace true biblical womanhood through the solid study of God's Word. She is currently working for Revive Our Hearts, where she manages partnerships and co-hosts Grounded. You can find her at sheshallbecalled.com, or we will definitely link to all of her socials in the show notes.
Portia is also a wife and a mom. On this episode, you're going to hear her talk about how she manages a full-time job, a nonprofit, and her family life, all while entrusting herself to the Lord and seeking to follow him faithfully. Just as a quick reminder, all of these interviews are not meant to be prescriptive in how you should handle your work and motherhood, but we're just hoping to hear from a variety of women. We hope that you'll get a glimpse into the lives of real moms who've had to make adjustments and hard choices over the years. We hope that this conversation is a blessing to you.
All right, let's jump into the conversation with myself, Laura, and Portia.
Thanks for joining us, Portia. We are so excited to chat. I remember several years ago when we were traveling and we came up to Revive Our Hearts, and we walked into a cabin and met you in person for the first time, and we got to room together. Since then, we’ve gotten to connect multiple times. Welcome. We're glad you're here. I'd love if you just share a little bit about yourself and your family and your work, to get us going.
Portia Collins: Yes, I'm glad to. I'm Portia Collins. I live in the Mississippi Delta. You probably can tell that already from my deep Southern accent. If not, keep listening; you'll hear it. I live in the Mississippi Delta with my husband, Mikhail, and my daughter, Emerie. I used to call her a "tenacious threenager," but she just turned four. Now I got to come up with something creative to call her. We do life here. I currently serve with Revive Our Hearts. I have a dual role there. I work with the monthly partner program, and I co-host a web show—well, it's a podcast and a videocast called Grounded. My next thing—ya’ll, we're really going to get into this today! Next thing is I founded a ministry called She Shall Be Called. It focuses on Bible literacy.
That's the 30,000-foot view of my life because there are so many other details in there that I feel like I'm skipping over.
Laura Wifler: Yes. We were just talking before we hit the record button. Portia was telling us about all of the different facets of things that she does in her work and juggling, you know—running a nonprofit ministry, as well as working for a nonprofit and doing great work there. You work full-time for that, for Revive Our Hearts. You're doing—this other nonprofit—fitting it into the margins where you can, plus you are raising your daughter. You are a wife. We know you're active in your local church. You have a lot that you are juggling and you're managing. Can you maybe start out, Portia, and keep telling us a little bit about some of the nitty-gritty practicals that you are working through? Also, what do you love about how your work fits into your mission as a Christian woman?
Portia: Oh, man. I have a big like—my thing is service. I feel like every part of my life is serving. To be completely honest, I’ve prayed and asked God so many times, "Help me to serve in every facet of life with joy—completely, fully giving myself." One of my litmus tests is, if I'm not serving my family with joy and fully, that means I probably need to let something drop off somewhere else because I'm just stretching myself a little bit too thin. I just love that I get to say this—I don't have to, but I get to serve well at Revive Our Hearts, and I get to serve my family, and all of it blends. Fortunately, I serve with a ministry that is what I call family friendly.
Professionally, I've had a lot of jobs, and many of them, especially here in the South, will boast and say, "Hey, we love kids. We're family friendly." When the rubber meets the road, they aren't. I am happy to really serve with a ministry who—they say what they mean and mean what they say. Emmi has never been considered a distraction or a hindrance or anything like that. In fact, if you go back and look at some of the early episodes of Grounded before she started school, Emmi would make frequent appearances. [Laughter]
No one ever slapped my hand and said, "Hey, get that kid out of here." It helps to have to be surrounded with people who have the same worldview as you and prioritize the same things. I work and I serve, but also, I'm a mom and I'm a wife. It's non-negotiable. I'm not going to push that to the side. It all blends well together, but I think the house that it all fits under is serving and serving well.
Emily: I think you're talking a little bit about how you see your role as a mom and a wife intersecting with the service that you do in your income-producing work. Can you just share a little bit more about, as you've taken that to the Lord over the years, how has he blessed you in and through that? How has he even provided for you in the midst of hard seasons (which we all have), where you feel like, "No, I've got too much on my plate"?
Portia: I think that, of course, God is such a God of grace. I haven't been a mom and a wife for very long. I feel like I'm still a newbie. Mikhail and I got married in—oh, help me—2016. I think God has been gracious in helping me to learn this step-by-step. I'm your classic Type A—feel like I got to have it all together, have a plan. It has to work this way. Mothering and being a wife has taught me—first of all, there's no handbook. There's no degree that you can get that's going to help you master this. It's one of those things where you just have to walk in grace every day. You're looking to God every day. I'll be the first to say that I haven't always gotten it right. I have loaded my plate down with too much stuff. I have found myself stretched thin, but God has been gracious to help me realize that and help me re-prioritize. I don't beat myself up about it. It's like, "Okay, I take assessment." Then it's like, alright, let's change lanes, shift gears here, and figure out how to make this work a little bit better.
Laura: I do think that's a great encouragement for any mom who's out there, whether or not you're working two jobs, or you have a full-time position and doing something on the side, or you're at home all day. I think that that's something where we really do need to talk to friends and family and be able to say to our husbands, "Do you feel like your needs are being met? Do you feel happy with the work schedule that we've engaged in?" And vice versa. I know, even my husband and I—we have discussions about his schedule. We have discussions about my schedule, and I think as moms, we really need to be open to having really clear communication with other people, particularly our spouse. Also, sometimes we need those outside voices—what you're saying here—to be able to point out and say, "Hey, I think your priorities are a little out of whack here." Those are really hard things to hear, but when they're said from a friend in love who cares for you and knows you in real life, that really can change the tone of how I think the course of your life goes. It can really change—
Portia: —I agree.
Laura: —and help bring you back to say, "Oh, no, this is what I want to be about."
Portia: There have been times when I was working other jobs, where he and I have sat down, and he's been like, "Come on home, girl. This ain't working. We got to figure out something." Part of the reason I ended up coming to Revive Our Hearts is just because I was having—it was a huge adjustment with me for my previous job. For context for those listening, I was executive director of an art space nonprofit. That's what my background is in. I've pretty much always done nonprofit work since I graduated college. It was a great job in the sense of doing meaningful work for my community, but I'm not going to lie. It was a lot. It was a lot because it was a small art space. Little teeny tiny nonprofit.
That means that I'm not only the executive director—I'm the social media manager. I'm the maintenance person. I'm the janitor. I am everything. There would be times when I would have to—like ten o'clock at night, if something happened at the center, I got to get up and I got to go check on it. Me and my husband—we both agree we don't know if this is the best fit. This is where I think just prayer and trusting God— because I left that job not knowing what I was going to do next, which is not typical for me—because I told you guys, I'm a planner. I'm your Type A like "I'm not leaving no job if I don't know what's going on next." So, I really think it was a radical faith move for both of us to agree and just say, "Okay, we're going to wait and pray and just reassess some things." Thankfully, God worked it out to where I have a much better fit. I honestly feel like I have the most balance that I've ever had since I've been a wife and a mom. [Laughter]
Emily: I love you just sharing about what the Lord taught you, in and through that, to depend on him in faith—to take your very real challenges and struggles where you don't have a solution, but you know that the Lord does in his timing, even if that solution wouldn't have looked like a phenomenal perfect job. I know for some people, it may be waiting longer or may be provisioned in a different way, or it may just be—
Portia: —being at home for a season. That was the plan, initially: okay, I'm not going to look for anything. I didn't. Coming to Revive Our Hearts literally fell into my lap, but it's okay to take a season and say, "Hey." Of course, I don't want to be, I guess, careless. I know that people have financial needs, and many households are dual income households. I get that, but if you can, to be able to have space to think and pray and reassess—that may be an option. I guess my thing is—just don't close yourself off to, "Oh, no, absolutely not. I'm not going to do that," because I used to be that person. I used to be that "No, I'm not quitting my job ever," and God humbled me and showed me—then just going from that, it's really like living life more open-handedly. It's like I was clinging so tight to wanting to be defined as this career woman and all of this stuff, and God just opened up my hands and my life changed, and I feel like I can work and serve in a better way to my family and with what I do at Revive Our Hearts in such—it's just better. I'm a better person. I'm able to serve more joyfully and fully than when I was just being so tight-handed on life and my plans and things like that.
Laura: I was just chatting with a friend the other day about how, when I was in the throes of working very heavily, I did not have good work-life balance. I was definitely just in a season where I had overcommitted, particularly for work, but also some personal things. I was just sharing with her, like, in the moment, I really couldn't tell how unhealthy it was. Again, going back to the accountability, sometimes I think it's really hard for us to see and yet, like you were saying, you feel like you're better, or you feel like now that you found more balance, it all works better. It's interesting because I think that it does sometimes take that culling or removing of a lot of the things, and that may be saying, "Yes, you've lost your job. You have to stop working where you are. You have to endure perhaps just in a tougher season." But being able to cull away some of those things where, hey, no, my identity is in my career. My identity is as a professional. My identity is in climbing the ladder and showing everyone what I can do.
It's actually a kindness of God sometimes to let us get too deep to where we start to feel like we're drowning, and then he pulls us back and shows us a better way. I do think now, like you, I'm hitting a little bit of a better stride and feel more content. There's more balance. I'm able to be a better friend and mother, and just holistically choosing Christ day in and day out instead of feeling like, consistently, I just wasn't even paying attention to the Lord.
Portia: Put him on the back burner, girl. That's where I really hit it was—and I tell this story a lot with a lot of my friends at Revive Our Hearts—but I was going through this season right before I quit my previous job where I was like—remember I told you I was tight-fisted, like "I'm going to make this work. I know I'm having a hard time, but it has to work," and the Lord took me to the book of Haggai, and I know it had to be the Lord because ain't nobody just looking for the book of Haggai. [Laughter] I don't know how—I don't know if it was a reading plan. I don't know how I ended up in this book, but—just a quick short Bible lesson: Haggai was a prophet and Haggai was basically prophesying to the people of Israel. This was post-Babylonian exile. They had come back to Jerusalem. The temple had been destroyed. They were supposed to rebuild the temple. Well, they came back, and they laid the foundation, and then sixteen years passed, and that's still all they had done: lay the foundation.
They had gone and built their own houses, and, doing their own thing, the Lord used Haggai to come to them and tell them, "Look, you’re building your panel houses—you're doing all of this stuff, but it's almost like you're doing it in vain. It's like you putting your money in a bag with holes in it. You plan a lot, but you harvest a little, and it's because you have not prioritized the Lord."
Back then, the temple was central to the faith. By them saying, "Hey, we ain't going to do nothing. We're putting it on the back burner," it was really a negligence and a disrespect to God. So God took me to that passage and what I was hearing through that passage was, "You have done everything that you wanted to do, Portia. You have held onto your plans. You have gone and worked here. You have chased degrees, and I have sat here on the back burner for years and years, and it's time for me to come off the back burner." That is how it happened. I knew after I read that passage, it was like, "Okay, I got to re-prioritize," because there are things that I knew that God was calling me to, both ministry-related and family-related, that I just kept pushing to the side because I didn't have any space.
I didn't have any space in my life, and so I would say, "Well, I'm just going to push that. I'll do that later." God just really brought it to me and showed me, "My things aren't second things. They're first things." Two weeks after sitting in that passage, I put my resignation in, and we started re-prioritizing. I had a conversation with my husband. Of course, I didn't just quit without talking to him, but initially, he looked at me like, "Okay, are you crazy?" Then he said, "You know what?" After I explained and I told him what I had been reading and studying, he's like, "Okay, if this is where the Lord is leading, then we have to be obedient to that." I will say, for us, that was a radical move that really changed even the climate of our home and how we're operating. It was probably one of the best things that happened for us, period.
Emily: Thank you for sharing that story with us and just bringing in Scripture—I think giving us a very real-life, practical example about how a mom goes before the Lord with his Word and listens to what he might want to do in her life and then responds in obedience alongside her husband. I think that's just such a beautiful picture and I just love hearing how God was faithful to you in that. I think, even as we transition to looking forward, we would just love to hear—I know you've mentioned you're Type A. You're ambitious. You have plans. As you look to the future, what kind of goals and hopes do you have for your work? Then how are you, especially in light of the decisions that you've made, trusting God with those plans as you continue on?
Portia: I'm holding them loosely, like I'm holding them loose. This's been my thing. It's like, "Okay, Portia, don't get too attached to anything." Even this week, me and my husband are kind of going through a reassessment again. For those who don't know, I deal with some chronic health issues, and so that's something that I have to keep in mind in terms of my capacity to be able to do things and deciding what future projects or whatever it is. I have to keep those things in my mind, and so one of the things that I really want to do is: I want to write. I want to write.
I really want to write a book, but I'm having to table that plan until I know that I have the capacity to be able to do it. Now, five years ago—well, three years ago—if you had told me that I could not do this right now, I would have had a fit and I would've been like, "Okay, let me figure out how I got to make this work," but now I really see it as a grace of God. God's showing me, "I'm not just saying—this is for your good. I'm not withholding good things from you. I am doing what's best for you." So, I'm holding my plans loosely.
I want to write. I want to see She Shall Be Called go a little further, reach a little further. I have a huge passion for Bible literacy, and so I want to see more women really pick up their Bibles and understand it and not feel like they're reading Greek when they engage with the Word of God. Honestly, the plan is to just trust God in every season, every moment. I think about new mercies every morning. It's not even just every morning. It's every moment, step by step. It's like, "Okay, what is this going to look like?"
It's okay to plan. If you're a Type A person like me, it's okay to set your goals, but my advice is to just hold them loosely and be—I feel like we need to have a very keen sense of discernment when it comes to looking at our lives. Every season is not the same. There may be something that you have to pull back or table—or may have to take it off the table altogether—but that's okay. I really think all of that is a grace from God. Just know if you truly trust him and you trust him with your life and you trust him with your plans and with your family, then you're not losing anything by having to make adjustments and re-prioritize.
Laura: Well, I am very similar to you in the sense that, if a project comes across my desk, I'm like, "Let's go. Let's do it. We'll figure it out." It's a yes now; we'll figure it out later. Like you, I've also realized over the years of just—it reminds me of the verses in Proverbs where it talks about walking in the way of the good or show me the way of the good—the good life. That part has always stuck with me because it's about seeking wisdom, and it's about seeking Jesus, who is our wisdom. That has always been something that's helpful for me in the past few years because I just thought, "Well, I want the good life. I want to walk in the way of the good," and that's what I want.
I think, as our goals and objectives and strategies and all the things that we're going after become informed by Christ and we set our eyes on him, it is amazing how—it's not that I'm saying no to these things and feeling like you're just going to pry them from my cold, dead fingers, but it's that, like you're saying, I really do have open hands, and it's a much better way to live. In a sense saying, "Okay, Lord, it's all yours anyway," so there's less disappointment. I'm not discontent. I feel grateful for what I have, and it really is the good way. This is the good life.
I think that that's something—again, three or four years ago, I couldn't have recognized. I thought living the good life was lots of accomplishments and lots of achievements and showing everybody all the great things that can be done in addition to my motherhood and while being a great mom, but really like reorienting my heart and realizing, "No, that's not eternal. That's not what matters." For that to root deep in your soul to where it truly informs your decisions—there is no life like it.
Portia: Yes. I agree. As you were saying that, it just made me think—and I don't know who's listening, but I want to tell you—don't despise the small things. I say this as a woman who used to despise the small things. I would be frustrated if I felt like, "Well, I'm not doing—this is not big enough, or this is not enough." Now, I take so much joy in just doing something as simple as playing the Nintendo switch with my daughter. For me, that is like an accomplishment now. It's such a small thing, but it's so meaningful. I think we live in a world now that tries to—our culture tries to program us to think bigger, chase more, do this, but there are so many small things that bring God glory, and ultimately encourage and impact the people around you. There are times, if you notice—I think we all are on social media together—but I've become a ghost on social media lately.
I'll post a little something here and there, but I'm not nearly as active, and I knew it because I need to take the season to just chill and live my life and not have to share everything. It's like I'm enjoying those small things—the time with my daughter, the time with my husband. One of the things that me and my husband have started doing lately—we're cooking Sunday dinners together and it's such a small thing, but I feel like it's huge in the kingdom. The impact of that is much greater than what we see right now when we're standing in the kitchen, making cornbread together. I feel like it's so much bigger than that.
So, if there is a woman who's listening and they hear us on here and like, "Oh, yeah, Emily and Laura, they do Risen Motherhood, and Portia does this, and I need to do that." No, don't despise the small things, okay? What God has called us to may not be the same thing that God is calling you to. So just be present right where you are in life and hold your plans loosely and walk in the grace of God every moment. Not just every day—every moment.
